36-Domestic Violence SURVIVOR: Danielle Patrice Part 2

Speaker 1:
0:23

This is why you know I'm doing what I do, because I know what my children went through. I know what I went through. You know I work alone. I don't do this with others because, at the end of the day, nobody can tell your story like you, nobody can talk about your story and know the ins and outs of it like you can. So, for me, that's what led me to wanting to understand this book, or started this book, because what I did, you know, I started advocating understand this book, or started this book, because what I did, you know, I started advocating, I started really seeing, like you know. You know, as a, as a survivor now survivor when I was a victim, I was going through the lens, just going through the tunnel you know the tunnel vision and I couldn't see everything else. And then having to say everything I went through and it's like, oh my God, I really went through this, and then advocating and start talking about it. Where I've met with different you know politicians, where I've met with different organizations and talked about it. But the thing, or, you know, talk to different events. One of the things I was met with, you know, is I'm so sorry, I'm praying for you and whatnot, and that's all well and good, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for change Me.

Speaker 1:
1:23

You know, with COVID, like everyone else being home during COVID, I ended up having to be on a I want to say, a quest to figure out what was going on and wanting to understand again what happened to me during this relationship, because I know I'm different now. You know we've talked about there's some stories, you know. You hear that. You know domestic violence does rewire the brain, which is true, and so that's why I went on this quest to understand what happened. That's why I have this book.

Speaker 1:
1:54

You know, neuroscience, the Ecosystem of Domestic Violence, to do the research to figure out that it's not just a couple, it's not just between victim and abuser. It's about that. This is an entire system that's based off of beliefs, based off of generations of this. That's based off of so many things broken systems. You know generations of this that's based off of so many things broken systems, laws that aren't enforced, or legislation that's not even enacted yet that could really help the system or help people in this situation. Because this information, even from a neuroscience perspective, is not in the courtroom. It's not in the courtroom and as humanistic as the legal system is, where you're dealing with all types of behaviors and personalities.

Speaker 1:
2:32

Could you imagine what would happen in the future if this information, this scientific information, was also in the hands of the courts, where they could honestly, really, you know, hold the abusers accountable and get the help for victims and victim defendants, and also have the abusers accountable and get the help for victims and victim defendants and also have the abusers get help as well, because even you know it's because ostracize them all the way. But what happens to people like you know, who are in that situation? Like mold grows, it grows in the dark, it festers. Now, don't ostracize them, get them to help too, because at the end of the day, they already got a new supply and that's, and they're working up on their next victim, you know. So that's the thing you know. I, you know why I want this book. You know talked about. I want this domestic violence awareness, not just awareness, but to to change what you can't understand. So this is, this is why this book is out here.

Speaker 2:
3:26

Yes, which is it's. You know, like, how we mentioned before, domestic violence is multifaceted. There are so many things that play into it and just quickly going back a little bit to your story, I just wanted to. I jotted down a few things that sort of stuck out to me. So one when your ex was talking about getting married early that's looking back at it, it's always easier to see red flags, but that is sort of a red flag of, you know, trying to make a commitment early on in a relationship.

Speaker 2:
3:58

The other thing that you mentioned was abusers act differently when they're your friend versus being in a relationship, and I wonder if it's more of once you become their significant other, you become their property or they have now this control over you. So I thought that was interesting. Your family abusers like to isolate their victims and so they may move them away or bad talk them to family or friends or whatever, and unfortunately your family helped with that isolation process. And then I also feel that they are really good at taking the identification of a person away and I felt when you said you were a very strong, independent woman before this relationship, I immediately thought of myself to same kind of situation and just over time it's like they dismantle every piece of you to where you're just this shell of what you used to be. And then now, when you know you need to get out, you don't know where to fall back on because all of that strength disappeared somewhere.

Speaker 2:
5:14

And then the charisma that you mentioned and I think that's one of the really difficult things for victims is when they have to go into the court system or if they have to plead their case, because they've been victimized and they've been dismantled and now they are this shaky kind of a mess of a person and you're fumbling through this story which in tail could also be re-traumatizing you to a judge who gets to make their own personal decision on what happens ultimately in your situation. And then you do have, you know, a variety of things could be a narcissist, could be a sociopath, could be any of those who is able to just talk through what, whatever they feel like they need to talk to, because they don't have that empathy where they can just know they can lie through everything and they don't feel like there's any kind of consequences. But anyway, those are just a few things that kind of stuck out to me that seems to be a recurring theme or a common theme within any of these domestic violence situations. But back to your book.

Speaker 2:
6:20

I love that you call it an ecosystem, because that's actually it totally is. It's not just the victim, it's not just an abuser. And so can you talk a little bit about what you think is included, or what you mentioned is included in the ecosystem?

Speaker 1:
6:38

So I would just want to start off saying that you know, the reason why it's even called ecosystem is because it's, as you said it before, it's multifaceted, it's layered and for me, as far as the biological term, if I'm going to talk about science, as far as the ecosystem that goes from the atoms, the molecules, it talks about how everything is interconnected, as we talked about how the outside, the sun, affects you. If it's too hot outside, you have the trees, the trees, they help keep the shade. That's how things affect you in multiple ways. Even if you don't realize it, you know it helped. You know the sun helps the soil grow as well, as much as the water, the rain. And that's what I wanted to to bring a point is is that everything is interconnected, because you may not realize that you have an abuser that's a friend, and and because you may not realize that you have an abuser that's a friend. And you know the thing is, if you have a friend that's an abuser and then they're shifting the narrative, you don't realize that you're an enabler Because at the end of the day, you're sitting there defending your friend. Well, I know how my friend is. Do you really know how your friend is. I know how your friend is because I'm with them, I'm married to them, I'm with them, I'm married to them, I'm intimate with them. However, do you know how your friend is? You don't know them from that angle, and so that's what the point is. Is that understanding that it's so many different layers of it that it goes from the brain I talk about the emotions and I'm comparing it to the actual ecosystem, the brain being the atom, the emotions being the molecules.

Speaker 1:
8:05

The abusers, the victims and victim defendants are the cells. You know, and I go so forth into that. You know, and because it's taking you step by step, what every level is because in the book I don't call it chapters, I call it levels and because and so you're understanding what this is what's happening on this particular level, this is what's happening on the tissue level, this is what happened at community level, this is what happening on the politics level, the entertainment industry level, this is what's happening on the societal level, and what that's doing is making you understand that this is so much bigger than, oh, those neighbors that are arguing, this is so much bigger than oh, why can't my sister and their boyfriend get along? This is so much bigger than that and when people start to understand that it's everybody plays a role in this. What role do you play in the person's life when you're being victimized? What role do you play when you're you know the abuser and you're not helping the victim, or you're coinciding with the abuser, you know, you know?

Speaker 1:
9:02

One of the things that I talk about is that in the book is you know? In my opinion, I think that some of these enablers need to be arrested because, at the end of the day, if there was a murder, you would be an accessory during the fact and after. So what do you think is happening? Beforehand, there's abuse happening and there's people who are also coinciding, knowingly and you know, and willingly participating in this situation because the abuser is their friend. So I think it's just you know a lot of things that's happening in these circumstances. And not to mention, you know, there's a scientist I want to say her name is Jennifer Freud and her work is amazing as well, and I talk about it where it's called betrayal trauma, where the victims are experiencing that, where it's experiencing the you know, the betrayal of someone that they once trusted. So this is a complicated situation. You have people that you know, still feel betrayed because you know they're this person they know still owes them five dollars. Well, what do you think this person is saying, hey, I'm never going to do it again. I'm never going to do it again and then betrays their trust over and over and over again, someone that they once trusted? That's something that needs to be discussed. That's something that needs to be looked into. There's another term DARVO, deny attack, reverse victim offender. And that's what I mean when they're saying they're shifting the narrative. So I think that, with all of these things, that's part of understanding the ecosystem.

Speaker 1:
10:26

A lot of people like to talk about the gaslighting or the new buzzwords now, but we really need to understand domestic violence as a whole piece of this, this whole entire situation, and to see why is this so effective. Why is it one in three and I say one in three women? This is more so as victims are women, not abusers, but I mean, let's just say I know men are victims as well, but mine is geared towards women victims and male abusers, just to be clear. But why are there one in three women being abused? Why is this an epidemic, not just in this country, but in almost every country? Why is this an epidemic, not just in this country, but in almost every country? Why is this a continued situation of happening? Why is it that the government, the legal system, you know things of this sort. Why are they able to tackle this on and really put a stop to eradicate this? You know, especially when there's budgets being cut, people are falling through the cracks. People don't know. You know how to really combat, you know domestic violence, so you know it's for this book. It's really to understand.

Speaker 1:
11:28

This is part of the entire ecosystem. Everything I'm talking about part of the entire ecosystem. How does it affect you? Because you may not care about me. You know personally. It's like you know that's her business, but you know what. You have daughters, you have wives, you have sisters, you have nieces, cousins, friends. You have all of those people who may have been already victims or may be victims in the future. And you have to figure out, understand what is going on in these types of situations and not understand why, when I try to pull you out of it, you're going back to him. Why are you staying with him? He's abusing. You have to understand the dynamics of that and that's why I call this the ecosystem of domestic violence to understand the dynamics of that.

Speaker 2:
12:06

And that's why I call this the ecosystem of domestic violence, which I think is absolutely brilliant, because when people talk about domestic violence they're like, oh, we need to do something about it. But it just seems it's such a cumbersome thing when you look at it as a whole, like what can you really do? But when you break it into how you describe the ecosystem, then it's manageable. Then you can provide education for society on what they can do as a bystander or a witness and statistically, somebody close to them is going to be a victim of domestic violence at some point in their life. So yeah, I love that you describe it as an ecosystem, because it does. It makes it like I said, it makes it more manageable. You can attack it from different angles. It's like this massive beast and you just can come at it from all different points. And then do you want to talk a little bit about the neuroscience part, which I thought? Of course you know medical nerd. I thought was so cool.

Speaker 1:
13:07

Well, you know, one of the things that you know I'll say, talking about it is that there's a portion of the brain called the limbic system and what that does. It regulates the emotion and if there's any sort of dysregulation, it does make that person unstable. You know, and one of the things that you know in the brain was just consists of, you know, the amygdala, the hypothalamus, the thalamus and so forth, but there's a portion in the amygdala that's very vital because it does also have the moral decision, or capability to make the moral decision to hurt or harm someone else. And so that's one of the things that I thought that was very fascinating, that in this brain, because the brain is like a, you know, it's like an engine in a car, you know, the engine goes, the car don't move. Same thing with the brain. The brain, you know, is designed to everything in real time, to handle things and also handle things, and I would say, as far as talking about even the hormones, it's not just with seconds but it can go throughout years. You know, and that's all with the brain. You know with the chemicals and whatnot. But anyway, kind of going back to the brain, there's also something called the prefrontal cortex, which is in front, the front portion of the brain, and if that part is damaged in any way, shape or form, then you know that person has a potential to be more volatile. So you know, that's some of the things that you know. I picked up learning. You know as well.

Speaker 1:
14:32

Now, going back, like I said, I talked about, you know the thalamus and you know or not, thalamus, sorry the hormones and hormones. They release a lot of chemicals and some of that's called neurochemicals as well, and one of those is, you know, the cortisol that is also connected to the or in connection with chronic stress, from being in an abusive situation. You know, and not to mention, you know, the oxytocin, anyway it's, you know that is also what they call. You know that's the I don't say the love drug, but the love chemical that also bonds somebody to another person, and so that also plays a role in that as well. That's in as I talked about in the book. But you know, and it plays a role even with the trauma bonding, you know, not to mention.

Speaker 1:
15:15

But the most important thing I want to also say is that even with the, you know, in return, if someone left the restraint like, left the abuser, not only in years, your psychological or not psychological, your physiological makeup, your profile makes you a decade older. I'm in my 30s but my body can say I'm in my 40s. By being in a situation. You know your body, you know it's channeling all of that. All of that chronic stress is channeling all of that which can make you know it can damage your body. It can cause a lot of stress and disease in your body, like that dis-ease it can cause like a heart disease. It can cause causes a lot of problems within your body to go through being in this situation.

Speaker 1:
16:01

It's deeper than just you know. This person is saying you know I don't like you. It has a full on I would say a full on attack on your body, a full on attack on your brain. You know it is a full on attack on you spiritually as a full attack on you the whole nine. And so you know, with that said, I feel like with the brain, it is very important to understand how powerful the brain truly is, how very complicated the truth, because it is a complicated organ.

Speaker 1:
16:34

I'm not a neuroscientist but I am giving you certain points, but I feel that what's important is that you have to understand the dynamic of the brain with the, even with the neurochemicals, because the dopamine that's the rewarding that plays a role in that.

Speaker 1:
16:55

The bottom line is just that, the fact that the brain is a.

Speaker 1:
16:59

It's very important to understand that the brain is a very complicated organ and what it does it can rewire your brain, that the brain is a very complicated organ and what it does it can rewire your brain. Not only in that situation, you also understand the abuser, because even there's a you see what the brain looks like in the ridges. There's ridges in your brain and what that does is, if this consists of, like white and gray matter, and if that gray matter dissipates, if it's pretty much, you know, reduced, that also leads to schizophrenia. It also leads to some sort of mental health or mental illness and it's not as fully in my opinion, it's fully discussed how important the brain is. You know we have heart health, we have, you know, lung health and all these things reproductive health, but I don't see as much with brain health. And that's just my opinion and I think it's very important to understand that, because the brain is very much impacted, just as much as your body, when it comes to domestic violence.

Speaker 2:
17:55

Absolutely, and, like you said, the brain is the control center, and you mentioned earlier how things can become rewired. It can become rewired to where then your body will have reactions, and you also mentioned triggers that can happen, you know, later in life, where all of a sudden you're experiencing physically something that's going on and you don't understand why, but it's somewhere in that neuro pathway. Your brain saw something that was familiar and brought you back to that traumatic event and now you're having this reaction to it. You also in the book you mentioned, like Pavlov, yes, yes, and I think that has a lot to do to to do with it too where all of a sudden you start to learn to associate certain experiences, sounds, whatever, with something else and perhaps develop a fear for it, develop a connection to it.

Speaker 1:
18:53

And I'm glad you brought up Pavlov's dog, because I did not mention that.

Speaker 1:
18:56

But yes, because that's the other thing, talking about behavior conditioning as well. And the thing is, is that for those who may not be familiar with Pavlov's dogs as well, and the thing is, is that for those who may not be familiar with Pavlov's dogs, ivan Pavlov, he did a study. I'm going to say early 1920s or not 1920s, I want to say early 1900s definitely. But what he did was he would have a bell with his dog and he basically the dog correlated the bell along with getting food, and when he didn't ring the bell, he had the food out every the same time. But when he had the bell, the dogs would come and get the food. And when he didn't ring the bell, he had the food out every the same time. But when he had the bell, the dogs would come and get the food. But when he didn't ring the bell, the dogs wouldn't move because they thought that, you know, they're waiting for the bell, and so that's just a way of conditioning someone. You know, even when you compare it to domestic violence, it's the same thing. They're grooming them, they're, you know, brainwashing to become this puppet of them and of themselves. So so it's, you know, that's one of the things I did, you know did.

Speaker 1:
19:49

In contrast, the same thing is fear conditioning. What I talked about with um in the book with, uh, baby Albert, you know, with that story, is that you know that one was definitely the 1920s and that's unfortunately that that study was never finished because the baby was like at least nine months and the mother was like so concerned, like no, I don't want him, you know, in this study anymore. But the thing was it was the scientists. What they were doing was they were having this baby who had no fears, no phobias or whatnot, and they were creating phobias, you know, with certain objects. And what that was was it was an object like a bunny rabbit, a white bunny rabbit, and once he grabbed the white bunny rabbit, then they put on a loud noise and made him cry, and they would do this over and over again and then he developed a phobia of this bunny because it was associated with making this loud noise. And so that's fear conditioning and that's part of the things that I talked about. And that's how they're doing this, associating us with certain things.

Speaker 1:
20:48

You know we, like you, think about it as a survivor, you have certain memories that you know that may be triggered by what you're watching, by triggered by what you're eating, maybe a certain place where you go to get a baby, triggering for you, and that's because the fear condition that has been placed upon you with this particular abuser, because of the fear of conditioning that has been placed upon you with this particular abuser.

Speaker 1:
21:10

So I think that you know, even though these are separate studies, completely separate studies for a completely different reason, it all goes back to domestic violence. At the same point it all talks about domestic violence. It relates to domestic violence because these are the tactics that abusers use and I think that that's very important to understand that this is what it looks like being in these situations, because it's a bunch of tactics, it's manipulation, it's constant lying, it's constant. I mean, it's always something, whether they're denying constantly things, whether they're hot and cold, whether they're abusive, like you said earlier, they're breaking you down to the point where you are less of a person, where you are nothing but a shell, and they're able to easier to now to exploit you, to control you, to whatever they want to you. You know, unless you know when you're ready to leave, then they try to kill you. So you know, these are the kind of things that is so important that, even though, again, these are different studies for different, totally different reasons, they still go back and relate to domestic violence.

Speaker 2:
22:10

Absolutely, and I think the victims then, and who then become survivors, and when they find a healthy relationship, even though that individual may be exactly the most perfect, exactly the most perfect well, there's no such thing as a perfect person, but a stable, healthy, mentally normal individual they can still do regular behavior that may trigger that survivor. To revert back to, all of a sudden, having this fear or uncertainty of of what's happening and, you know, may lose faith in this person or trust in that person, right.

Speaker 1:
22:46

Right? No, you're absolutely right, and that's the thing it's, just it's. It's a very scary situation to be in for anybody.

Speaker 2:
22:54

And I I don't want to make it now. We're making it sound very hopeless. So it's not necessarily hopeless, because even though your, your neurons, your neuropathways may be rewired, there are ways to work through that and to become someone who can trust or love someone again or feel comfortable. You may still have these buried triggers that you don't even know are there, but there are different things that you can do to become, you know, be able to go out in society again and not be fearful of everything.

Speaker 1:
23:27

Right, but I do want to say that it's not about being hopeless. It's about this is the real situation, and the thing is is that you know a lot of people want to, you know, try to make it so light. And the thing is is that this is the problem is, is that we have to say exactly what it is. Yeah, there are times you're going to feel hopeless, you're going to feel powerless, but you also have to have you know when you you're ready, you will, and that you know your soul is going to enough's enough. You're going to get there and you're going to get to that point where it's like you know I'm going to fight through this and and. But you also have to understand this is what happens in these types of situations.

Speaker 1:
24:03

You know I'm, you know and I've done different, like a lot of podcasts where I've talked about you know people were talking about how you know they want it lighter, and the thing is is that that's why it's not getting resolved, because until you go through the darkness, you cannot get to the light. You have to go into the depth of it and that's the whole point. It is a. There were years before COVID where I felt trapped and felt hopeless and not knowing how to get out of it. But the fact that I am out of it and you're right that you know there are different neural pathways that can help you with getting into, you know, into a better situation, and you know the brain is plastic, so as a plasticity that it can help you, you know, getting out of the traumatic I don't want to say phase, but getting out of the trauma, getting yourself out of that. So it's not that it's impossible, but it's the fact that we got to get there and see that and have the correct research out there to get us to that point.

Speaker 2:
24:53

Absolutely, and knowledge is power, so you need to know what's happening to be able to develop the strength to get yourself to propel forward. Okay, is there anything else in the? I know, like I said, I don't want to talk totally about the book, because I want people to be able to read through it too, because it's great information. Is there anything else you wanted to touch on with the book?

Speaker 1:
25:16

No, I just want you know I hope people can? You know you can get on Amazon, you can get on Barnes and Nobles, and you know. I just wanted to thank you for listening and just really I really appreciate being on the show today.

Speaker 2:
25:27

Oh, I'm so happy you came on the show. This is. This is wonderful and we're going to. You'll have a bio that will be linked to this episode, so if people want to find the book, they should be able to just click on that and it will take them to where they can buy the book. Is there anything? So I guess it's sort of the same question, but worded maybe two different ways. Is there anything that you would feel like you'd like to tell somebody who's actively in a relationship, or is there something that you know now? Well, there's a lot of things you know now that you wish you could tell your previous self, I'm sure, but is there anything that really sticks out in your mind?

Speaker 1:
26:06

I think for anyone that's in a current situation, the one thing you have to do is over-document Document and finding ways to have your documentation. You've got to set it to yourself. If you've got to trust someone with your documents, do what you have to do. Make sure you have all your ducks in a row. And the reason why is because you know when you go through that courtroom you have to overprove. When you go to the police station you're going to have to overprove that you are a victim in a situation and you know you may not know how to you know, converse or conduct yourself because you're flustered, because you're in this situation that you're trying to get out of. You're frustrated, but it's a time. Let your papers, let your documentation be your guide. Let them talk for you.

Speaker 2:
26:50

That's perfect advice, okay, so incredible story, incredible amount of work and research into this book, and I think it's going to prove to be very helpful for not just victims, not just survivors, but any advocates, anybody who really wants to make a difference in the world of domestic violence. So I'm so happy, I'm so appreciative for you to come on today and share all of this information with us. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1:
27:17

I really I'm so grateful to be here. Thank you, okay, thank you.