Nov. 18, 2025

95-EMDR Explained: A Trauma Therapist’s Guide to Safe, Effective Healing with Laurel Roberts-Meese

Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
YouTube podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Deezer podcast player badge
PlayerFM podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
Podchaser podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
Castbox podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon YouTube podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon iHeartRadio podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon PlayerFM podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon Castbox podcast player icon
Season 3

Your brain can remember the past without reliving it—that’s the power of EMDR therapy. In this episode of the 1 in 3 Podcast, Ingrid sits down with licensed therapist Laurel to break down what EMDR is, how it works, and why it’s become one of the most effective trauma therapies for survivors of domestic violence, PTSD, and complex trauma.

We explore how traumatic memories get “red-flagged” in the brain, why hypervigilance sticks around, and how EMDR helps your nervous system finally believe you’re safe. If EMDR has ever sounded confusing, intense, or too simple, this conversation brings together the science, the structure, and real clinical experience to make it clear and accessible.

You’ll learn:

  • The eight-phase EMDR model and why preparation and resourcing are essential
  • How targeting, bilateral stimulation, eye movements, alternating tones, or butterfly tapping actually reduce distress
  • How negative core beliefs, body sensations, and mental imagery anchor traumatic memories
  • The truth about common concerns—fatigue, headaches, medication, and myths about EMDR being hypnosis or a “quick fix”

We also dive into complex trauma and C-PTSD, including attachment-informed EMDR, parts work, and the idea of “linchpin memories” that hold entire belief systems like I’m not safe or I’m unlovable. Laurel explains why dissociation may have once protected you, how to build grounding skills that keep you present, and how simple tapping techniques can reinforce positive experiences for long-term resilience.

Whether you’re a survivor exploring trauma therapy, someone curious about EMDR, or a listener searching for a grounded next step in healing, this episode offers a clear, compassionate, and practical guide.

If this episode helped you, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review so others can find it.

Laurel’s Links: 

https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/laurel-roberts-meese/

https://www.laureltherapy.net/

https://www.instagram.com/laureltherapycollective/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzmtQve6GOsJt2z9XZ02nZA

1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.

Support the show

If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.

Contact 1 in 3:

Thank you for listening!

Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe

00:47 - Welcome And Guest Background

03:43 - Choosing Trauma Therapy As A Calling

06:58 - Early Work And Sexual Trauma Specialization

11:15 - Hospital Crisis Work And Reactions To Trauma

15:06 - Referrals And What Makes EMDR Different

18:47 - How EMDR Rewires Memory And Safety

24:20 - Preparation, Coping Skills, And Phases

29:34 - Targeting, Bilateral Stimulation, And Relief

35:11 - Feeling Safe In The Body, Not Just Mind

39:43 - Dissociation, Adaptive Coping, And Presence

44:29 - Side Effects, Medications, And Fatigue

WEBVTT

00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:26.539
Hi Warriors, welcome to One and Three.

00:00:26.699 --> 00:00:27.820
I'm your host, Ingrid.

00:00:28.379 --> 00:00:33.500
Today we're diving into a powerful healing modality that's been changing lives.

00:00:33.740 --> 00:00:35.340
EMDR therapy.

00:00:35.659 --> 00:00:47.739
Joining me is my guest Laurel, a licensed therapist, who's going to walk us through what EMDR is, how it works, and why it can be such an effective tool for trauma recovery.

00:00:47.980 --> 00:00:49.179
Here's Laurel.

00:00:49.500 --> 00:00:51.739
Hi Laurel, thank you for joining me today.

00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:52.460
Hi.

00:00:53.019 --> 00:01:00.380
So before we get into our topic, I would like to for you to give a background just so listeners can get to know you a little bit.

00:01:00.700 --> 00:01:09.259
Yeah, well, as therapists go, I'm kind of uh one of the weirdos in that I always knew this was the plan for me.

00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:25.099
That I always knew that I was going to be involved in helping people build their and identify their resilience, tell and reframe their story, and really make the journey from victim to survivor in some capacity.

00:01:25.340 --> 00:01:30.060
And I knew this at age 12 after I had my first therapy session.

00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:39.819
And that, you know, I know very few people that are still on plan A, my father being one of the only other people, because most of us have many careers in our lifetime.

00:01:40.060 --> 00:01:51.819
Um, but you know, knowing that early on, um, all the choices that I was making as a young adult were putting me on this path towards being a therapist and having this trauma specialty.

00:01:52.140 --> 00:02:03.980
And I think that's probably the most important thing for people to know because it feels like the most salient part of my professional identity is like this was plan A and no regrets at all.

00:02:04.299 --> 00:02:04.700
Yeah.

00:02:05.099 --> 00:02:12.620
That's crazy because at 12, I don't I don't know that I even thought about the future at all.

00:02:12.939 --> 00:02:19.819
And I know that I'm I laugh at myself because I went just I went on to become a nurse practitioner.

00:02:19.900 --> 00:02:25.180
But at one point in one of the yearbooks, I put that my goal was to be a housewife.

00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:28.780
So that was even after 12 years old.

00:02:28.860 --> 00:02:31.420
So it's pretty amazing that you already knew.

00:02:31.979 --> 00:02:39.979
I think I've always been a future-oriented person, which sometimes pulls me out of the present moment, which is not always a good thing.

00:02:40.219 --> 00:02:42.860
So aiming for more mindfulness.

00:02:43.259 --> 00:02:43.500
Right.

00:02:43.659 --> 00:02:44.620
I can relate to that.

00:02:44.699 --> 00:02:46.620
I'm always looking toward the future too.

00:02:46.860 --> 00:02:47.659
So okay.

00:02:47.979 --> 00:02:55.259
And is there a specific area of therapy that you were going for that you definitely wanted to get into?

00:02:56.060 --> 00:03:02.860
Um I had to dabble a bit because you don't know till you've done it if it's your thing.

00:03:03.099 --> 00:03:11.099
So uh in graduate school, I you you have to do a bunch of different placements, much like nursing, I assume you kind of do, you know, rotations.

00:03:11.340 --> 00:03:18.699
And um, I worked in a family medical clinic, which in California there's the public health insurance.

00:03:18.860 --> 00:03:25.900
So working with low-income families and kids, working in a middle school as the therapist.

00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:28.460
And that I I did have some regrets then.

00:03:28.539 --> 00:03:31.419
I was like, I don't know if I should have become a therapist.

00:03:31.580 --> 00:03:32.780
Like middle school is rough.

00:03:32.939 --> 00:03:35.580
But then I started working with adults, and I'm like, oh no, this is great.

00:03:35.659 --> 00:03:36.139
I love this.

00:03:36.219 --> 00:03:39.419
It's it's just those middle school years are rough.

00:03:39.740 --> 00:03:40.300
Oh yeah.

00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:42.780
I have I have two middle school boys right now.

00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:44.219
So yes, I can't.

00:03:45.659 --> 00:03:50.860
But um even before I was in graduate school, um, I I knew this was the path.

00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:57.259
And so I was a psych major and like looking at um wanting to get some more hands-on experience.

00:03:57.500 --> 00:04:02.699
And I ended up doing an internship at the local rape crisis center.

00:04:02.860 --> 00:04:04.939
Um, we don't call them that anymore.

00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:11.500
We usually give them a little bit more of a kind of vague name, but you know, it was right across the street from my college.

00:04:11.659 --> 00:04:16.539
I had a great relationship with the person that was supervising and training me there.

00:04:16.699 --> 00:04:24.860
And that really set me on the path towards working specifically with trauma and having somewhat of a niche in sexual trauma.

00:04:25.899 --> 00:04:29.500
I imagine that's a very specific niche.

00:04:29.740 --> 00:04:32.939
Um, not a lot of people specialize in those areas.

00:04:33.500 --> 00:04:38.300
But I also feel like it shouldn't be because, you know, one in three.

00:04:38.620 --> 00:04:39.340
Right, right.

00:04:39.660 --> 00:04:44.779
And, you know, if you're a therapist worth your salt, you have to be trained in trauma.

00:04:45.019 --> 00:04:53.660
And if you work with, I mean, I'm not even gonna say women, like you're going to encounter sexual trauma on your caseload.

00:04:53.740 --> 00:04:58.620
So I feel like I think probably a lot of therapists are have some skill.

00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:11.819
It's just not something that they've sought out like specific training and had specific experience around hospital accompaniment and like the kind of initial crisis period right after a trauma.

00:05:12.060 --> 00:05:15.899
But, you know, many of our clients come in with sexual trauma.

00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:24.459
Do you have you ever, even in your training or or now, have you had to go into hospitals or get calls or anything from emergencies?

00:05:24.860 --> 00:05:26.220
Very briefly, yes.

00:05:26.379 --> 00:05:28.860
I I I only went in a couple of times.

00:05:28.939 --> 00:05:31.899
Um, but I'm really glad that I had that experience.

00:05:32.060 --> 00:05:46.060
I think it helps to have that kind of like immediate aftermath experience to understand that like there's no normal in terms of how someone acts or behaves or thinks.

00:05:46.220 --> 00:06:01.339
Like there would be people who would be like laughing the whole time they were in the hospital, and some people who were completely dissociated, and there's some people who were like just so overwhelmed or like beside themselves, and and all of those are normal and okay.

00:06:01.660 --> 00:06:01.980
Right.

00:06:02.139 --> 00:06:07.980
So just understanding that you go into a part of your brain that is just you know reptilian.

00:06:08.779 --> 00:06:09.339
Oh yeah.

00:06:09.579 --> 00:06:20.220
And the people say that all the time, you know, everyone is always judging how others react to different traumatic events, you know, especially the ones that the big news ones.

00:06:20.459 --> 00:06:34.060
Um do you do people refer to you like if you are a therapist and you're seeing somebody and then you realize that this trauma might be too much for me, I need to refer them out to someone who specializes more?

00:06:34.620 --> 00:06:35.980
Sometimes, yeah.

00:06:36.220 --> 00:06:55.100
Um I mean, trauma tends to manifest in a way that like it's very rare that it would just like suddenly be uncovered because there would be symptoms that would be showing up in relationships or sleep or something like that we can kind of tell.

00:06:55.180 --> 00:07:01.899
So it would be pretty rare that it would surprise a therapist after they've already been working with them for a while.

00:07:02.379 --> 00:07:24.540
And um, but what I do see a lot of in my practice, and I actually have um multiple clinicians in my practice, we've just a very small little group, and we all specialize in EMDR therapy, which is totally research-backed, looks and feels totally weird, but it it does work.

00:07:24.860 --> 00:07:29.660
And we do get a lot of people that refer to us for adjunct EMDR work.

00:07:29.740 --> 00:07:38.139
So they'll be doing talk therapy with someone else and then coming for this very specific type of trauma processing with us.

00:07:38.379 --> 00:07:53.899
So, yes, that we definitely get plenty of referrals for because it's there's so much research specifically on EMDR for sexual trauma, um, that like you don't want to just be throwing spaghetti at the wall.

00:07:53.980 --> 00:07:58.060
Like you want to try something that's like very likely to work on the first try.

00:07:58.379 --> 00:07:58.620
Yeah.

00:07:58.699 --> 00:08:07.500
And I'm I'm glad that people are referring out to it and not trying to just, you know, watch a YouTube video and go and jump in and say, I can do it.

00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:10.939
It's actually a very nuanced modality.

00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:23.259
Like it looks very simple on the outside, but like the neurobiology of trauma and how do you actually rewire the brain, yeah, that that's that's gonna be more than watching a YouTube video.

00:08:23.579 --> 00:08:24.220
Right, right.

00:08:24.939 --> 00:08:30.060
Um, okay, so let's let's talk about EMDR because it is so detailed.

00:08:30.220 --> 00:08:32.059
Um, I I did it twice.

00:08:32.299 --> 00:08:37.420
Same therapist, uh two different memories, but um, and did it, it was amazing.

00:08:37.579 --> 00:08:39.339
So yeah, let's let's talk about it.

00:08:39.579 --> 00:08:40.379
Yeah, I love it.

00:08:40.539 --> 00:09:03.820
I love it because it feels I mean, it feels so good as a provider to have something that is so effective that people can often see like pretty tangible results quickly, and that actually allows them to like just feel free, to feel like they are like not carrying it around with them anymore.

00:09:03.980 --> 00:09:10.539
It's not that it's like we've erased the memory and it's like that eternal sunshine of the spotless mind.

00:09:10.620 --> 00:09:17.580
It's not that, it's just like what happened was not okay, and I'm okay now, even though that happened.

00:09:17.740 --> 00:09:22.379
That's what EMDR does, like truly on like a body level, feeling that way.

00:09:22.539 --> 00:09:24.940
I'm okay even though that happened.

00:09:25.259 --> 00:09:29.740
So yeah, I love talking about it because it's it's incredible.

00:09:30.139 --> 00:09:33.179
Well, and so you mentioned rewiring the brain.

00:09:33.259 --> 00:09:43.100
So can you talk a little bit about what trauma does and then what EMDR hopes to do, I guess when you're when you're doing EMDR?

00:09:43.340 --> 00:09:43.980
Yeah, yeah.

00:09:44.139 --> 00:09:48.620
So interrupt me at any time that I start using like jargon.

00:09:48.779 --> 00:09:49.100
Okay.

00:09:49.419 --> 00:09:51.899
I'm gonna try and explain it like really simply.

00:09:52.299 --> 00:10:06.460
So when something that is a real or perceived threat to your safety or your livelihood or your kind of homeostasis happens, the brain categorizes it differently.

00:10:06.620 --> 00:10:09.820
It flags it and says, Oh, this is something important.

00:10:10.059 --> 00:10:11.419
We need to remember this.

00:10:11.740 --> 00:10:20.940
So it's kind of like putting a big, you know, red flag on this memory because we need to remember this to protect you in the future.

00:10:22.139 --> 00:10:25.740
And so you become hyper-vigilant because of this.

00:10:25.899 --> 00:10:36.620
And that hyper-vigilance, it's exhausting, it interrupts your sleep, it disrupts your relationships, and it can, I mean, I don't need to tell listeners how you know disruptive trauma can be.

00:10:36.860 --> 00:10:51.899
But if you're thinking if you kind of have this like cartoonish visualization of the brain, that there are these memories that have these big red flags on them, you're gonna devote disproportionate resources to those memories.

00:10:52.220 --> 00:11:00.299
Even if something is likely to never happen again, the brain is like, this is still important, this is still important, right?

00:11:01.179 --> 00:11:08.379
And what EMDR does is basically like take the red flag off of that memory and be like, you know what?

00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:13.100
Yes, we needed this information to protect us and to get through at the time.

00:11:13.340 --> 00:11:24.379
And we can also store this with all the other memories because we don't need your body to suddenly get totally like jacked up and activated every time you think about this.

00:11:24.620 --> 00:11:26.139
That's no longer necessary.

00:11:26.299 --> 00:11:32.460
So it really cuts that tie between the memory and that like physiological reaction that you have.

00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:36.860
So you can think about something upsetting and feel physically neutral.

00:11:37.100 --> 00:11:48.620
That's what EMDR can do by storing the memory in multiple places in the brain rather than just in that one flagged spot.

00:11:49.179 --> 00:11:51.259
Okay, so it like it sprinkles it out.

00:11:51.500 --> 00:11:51.820
Yeah.

00:11:51.980 --> 00:11:52.139
Okay.

00:11:52.379 --> 00:11:57.100
And it ties it to other memories that are somewhat neutral to positive.

00:11:57.740 --> 00:12:07.500
So I like to say we create these little trauma islands, and once we find ourselves on trauma island, it's hard to get off that island.

00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:18.299
And EMDR either like gives you a boat or like builds bridges so that anytime you end up on the island, you can get off the island with no problem.

00:12:18.539 --> 00:12:20.379
You don't feel trapped and scared.

00:12:21.259 --> 00:12:25.100
Now, there's a little bit of work you need to do before you jump into EMDR.

00:12:25.340 --> 00:12:25.580
Yeah.

00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:26.299
To right.

00:12:26.700 --> 00:12:26.940
Yes.

00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:29.259
And actually for some people, it's a lot of work.

00:12:29.980 --> 00:12:39.340
But um, and this is actually the number one red flag that I would say if you're doing EMDR and your therapist skips this, that's a big problem.

00:12:39.580 --> 00:12:53.659
I totally understand the desire to get to the cool part of EMDR, which is the reprocessing, which is the thing with the eye movement or the tapping or the beeping or whatever bilateral stimulations being used, which we can talk about.

00:12:53.899 --> 00:12:59.740
But I get people wanting to get to the part where they're actually going to see some results.

00:12:59.899 --> 00:13:20.059
But the problem is if you've not done the prep work and you don't yet have coping skills to handle the intensity of EMDR, because EMDR hinges on you being able to fully access what happened without it being kind of muted or pushed away to like really sit with the discomfort of the memory.

00:13:20.299 --> 00:13:31.100
If you have not prepared at all and you have no coping skills and self-soothing strategies, EMDR is going to be too intense and you're likely to drop out and not want to continue and not see the benefit.

00:13:31.340 --> 00:13:37.659
So that preparation and resourcing phase, which EMDR has eight phases, and that's phase one and two.

00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:44.539
And some people think, oh yeah, I'll just come in and we'll like talk for a few minutes and then I'll move my eyes and then the trauma will go away.

00:13:44.860 --> 00:13:45.740
No, no.

00:13:46.299 --> 00:13:46.620
No.

00:13:47.340 --> 00:13:57.899
It I would say it's it's not super common, but um, we definitely have had people in our practice that we spend a year on those first two phases.

00:13:58.460 --> 00:14:08.940
Because um, with complex trauma, with relational trauma, particularly complex childhood trauma, you're not gonna have those coping skills ready to go.

00:14:09.340 --> 00:14:15.340
And it's gonna be way too difficult to just okay, let's talk about all your trauma.

00:14:15.740 --> 00:14:18.779
That's gonna be a really negative experience.

00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:30.220
So it is uncommon to spend that long, but I've definitely seen it a handful of times in the uh, let's see, almost seven years that I've been doing EMDR.

00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:31.179
Okay.

00:14:31.899 --> 00:14:37.500
And can you talk what happens when you get to the point of EMDR?

00:14:38.299 --> 00:14:39.179
The the processing.

00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:39.740
Yes.

00:14:40.379 --> 00:14:46.220
So um first you do what's called targeting, which is you you talk about the memory.

00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:51.899
Now, you don't have to be super detailed in what you tell your EMDR therapist.

00:14:52.059 --> 00:15:01.500
So if there's something that feels like, yeah, I just can't say it out loud, but it's very present in my mind and I'm very much with it, then then that's okay.

00:15:01.820 --> 00:15:14.860
But to to fully target something, you access the memory and then you identify the negative thought, the emotions, the body sensations, and the visuals that go with it.

00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:17.179
And um, please don't do this at home.

00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:18.779
You cannot self-EMDR.

00:15:19.019 --> 00:15:19.340
No.

00:15:20.299 --> 00:15:31.179
And then the therapist talks you through a series of exercises while there's either tapping or beeping or a light that you follow.

00:15:31.340 --> 00:15:37.820
Uh, and over time the intensity of the feeling around that target goes down.

00:15:38.220 --> 00:15:40.860
And if it doesn't go down, you're not doing anything wrong.

00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:45.340
Your therapist needs to figure out what what the stuck piece is.

00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:54.620
Um, because in an uncomplicated EMDR scenario, let's say I'll pick one that's unlikely to resonate with with listeners.

00:15:54.779 --> 00:16:07.179
Let's say uh a college athlete has an injury and they the their target is like lying on the field looking up and like their they can they know that their ACL is torn or something.

00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:19.899
And um they come into EMDR therapy and uh the disturbance they feel when thinking about lying on the field um is like an eight out of 10.

00:16:20.139 --> 00:16:26.220
And then over time, over several sessions, it gets down to a zero.

00:16:26.379 --> 00:16:28.299
And they can truly access the memory.

00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:29.259
They still remember it.

00:16:29.419 --> 00:16:32.139
They often say it's fuzzier, it's harder to access.

00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:41.740
They're like, Yeah, I mean, I know I was on the field, I know the grass was green, I know my teammates were there, but like I it's it's a lot blurrier to me now.

00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:54.460
And they can think about it and be like, yeah, but I'm still here in this room and like I'm actually kind of hungry and thinking about what I want to have for dinner, which usually when we think about a trauma, like we get hijacked back into the trauma.

00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:58.860
So it can go from a 10 down to a zero, and that's the goal.

00:16:59.419 --> 00:17:03.100
Now, always be honest with your EMDR therapist.

00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:06.059
Don't just say it's going down to a zero because you think it should.

00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:09.420
Like, be honest about the level of disturbance that you feel.

00:17:09.659 --> 00:17:13.259
Um, and that's of course a very textbook case.

00:17:13.340 --> 00:17:19.099
It goes from a 10 to a zero immediately, and it's definitely not usually within one session.

00:17:19.420 --> 00:17:21.340
Um, although sometimes.

00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:22.700
Yeah.

00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:28.299
I uh I remember my therapist asked how familiar I was with EMDR before we started.

00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:36.779
And I said, I'm a little bit, but the way my brain works is it will put a stop to anything if I can figure out what's supposed to happen.

00:17:36.940 --> 00:17:39.660
So I said, give me what I need to know.

00:17:40.460 --> 00:17:45.980
And but don't go into too much detail because otherwise my brain's just going to be like, no, we're not doing this.

00:17:46.700 --> 00:17:49.019
And you know, at first, good insight.

00:17:49.339 --> 00:17:49.900
Yeah, yeah.

00:17:50.059 --> 00:17:54.380
Oh, I know my brain's a pain in the butt a lot of times.

00:17:54.619 --> 00:18:00.539
Um, but I remember when we started at first and and she did the finger movement back and forth.

00:18:00.859 --> 00:18:04.539
And I remember watching and I was like, this is ridiculous.

00:18:04.779 --> 00:18:05.099
I know.

00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:09.900
Oh, it to I still feel that way, and I've been an EMDR therapist for years.

00:18:10.059 --> 00:18:10.460
Yeah.

00:18:10.700 --> 00:18:12.140
It it's totally bizarre.

00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:13.420
It is so bizarre.

00:18:13.900 --> 00:18:15.259
You you're gonna do what?

00:18:15.339 --> 00:18:17.099
And it's gonna make my trauma go away.

00:18:17.180 --> 00:18:19.099
Like it takes a lot of blind faith.

00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:34.460
And for people who, you know, if their trauma is, you know, a 10 out of 10, that is a big ask to like be that uncomfortable in a room with a therapist, and they're waving their hand saying it's gonna make it like it, it's absurd.

00:18:34.859 --> 00:18:36.299
It looks and sounds absurd.

00:18:36.380 --> 00:18:37.500
Yeah, it really is.

00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:42.220
And I remember thinking, like, yeah, yeah, I'm at my trauma and I'm there.

00:18:42.460 --> 00:18:56.619
And I'm like, but I'm not because because I'm not I'm blocking myself, and it took a while for me to really get into it, and um it's so emotional, like every single emotion, not all right away.

00:18:56.779 --> 00:19:06.859
This was multiple, multiple sessions, but yeah, yes, it went through um all sorts of emotions, emotions that I didn't even know were there.

00:19:07.099 --> 00:19:09.980
Um, but yeah, it was a very, very vivid memory.

00:19:10.220 --> 00:19:10.859
Yes.

00:19:11.420 --> 00:19:31.019
I think one of the strengths of EMDR is that it puts you into a feeling and reacting state that sometimes we mentally override, particularly, you know, people that are smart, academic, you know, driven, that we can be a a little cerebral.

00:19:31.180 --> 00:19:33.579
And that sometimes gets in the way of our healing.

00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:41.099
That if we actually tap into reactions and our body sensations, then we're like, oh yeah, yeah, there's something here.

00:19:41.259 --> 00:19:41.500
Yeah.

00:19:41.740 --> 00:19:42.859
Well, and that's what she kept saying.

00:19:43.019 --> 00:19:51.420
She's like, that was a lot of work that we had to do before we started EMDR was for me to recognize in my body when I was feeling certain things.

00:19:51.660 --> 00:19:58.460
And that was very strange for me because I'm a very head thinker, you know, everything's from my head.

00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:10.700
And so um tapping into actually the the feelings that my body was experiencing and where in my body and how to describe it, uh, that was very strange.

00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:14.220
Um, but it is like you said, you're in the present.

00:20:14.299 --> 00:20:21.019
So you do have to dive into that memory, but you know it's safe because you're not actually there.

00:20:21.740 --> 00:20:32.779
Well, and a lot of people don't feel safe because they they mentally go back into it and really feel fully in it and are having a very unsafe physical reaction.

00:20:33.099 --> 00:20:39.420
Um, but you can lot you can logically know you're safe and not feel safe.

00:20:39.819 --> 00:20:45.339
And I don't care if someone logically knows they are safe after a trauma.

00:20:45.579 --> 00:20:51.339
My goal is to get them to feeling safe, like actually believing with their body that they're safe.

00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:53.339
That's the goal of EMDR.

00:20:53.740 --> 00:20:58.859
Because we can all like logically look around and be like, yep, I'm in my house.

00:20:59.180 --> 00:21:09.740
And and yet, if you were to think of a car accident you were in, you would feel like you were in your car and it was happening, even if you logically know.

00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:18.700
So um, so yeah, it is that disconnect between what we logically know is true and what our body is telling us is true.

00:21:19.180 --> 00:21:29.259
And when we have a particular like mental defense against bridging that, uh, it it can be challenging.

00:21:29.420 --> 00:21:32.859
And EMDR is really good at overriding that.

00:21:33.259 --> 00:21:39.819
It also sounds uh maybe I I think I was picking up on like a little bit of dissociation that was happening.

00:21:40.059 --> 00:21:40.619
Oh yeah.

00:21:40.859 --> 00:21:41.420
Oh yeah.

00:21:41.740 --> 00:21:43.500
Which like no judgment.

00:21:43.579 --> 00:21:52.059
In fact, like let's thank dissociation for protecting us for so long because it is an adaptive coping strategy.

00:21:52.220 --> 00:21:58.460
Sometimes we have to dissociate to survive because the intensity of being in the present moment is unbearable.

00:21:58.700 --> 00:22:20.059
So, like, thank goodness dissociating is an option, and it can become maladaptive when it gets in the way of your life and enjoying like the depth of quality of relationships and work and like emotional presence with things, and it can interfere with trauma healing.

00:22:20.140 --> 00:22:36.619
Because if at the first sign, at the first sign of trauma you dissociate, well, yeah, then we really gotta build up that toolkit to handle um the intensity of the trauma so that we don't dissociate because we do have to be fully present with it to process it.

00:22:36.859 --> 00:22:37.420
Oh yeah.

00:22:37.579 --> 00:22:44.940
Um my my therapist had a lot of work cut out for her because you know, I got out of my relationship and I thought I was fine.

00:22:45.099 --> 00:22:49.660
I was like, oh, that was that was easy, you know, and carrying on life.

00:22:49.740 --> 00:22:53.019
And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, why is why are they saying that?

00:22:53.180 --> 00:23:03.980
Is that my true friends wondering what their intents were by intentions were by what they were saying, and like nothing was harmful.

00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:06.700
And then I realized I'm like, I don't think I'm okay.

00:23:06.940 --> 00:23:15.579
And so I went in, um, and I told her, I said, Listen, this happened and it's in a nice little box and it's up on a shelf in my brain.

00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:18.619
It's there, I know it's there, but I don't want to take it out of the box.

00:23:18.700 --> 00:23:20.220
I just want to leave it there.

00:23:20.539 --> 00:23:22.460
Like, let's just store it away.

00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:25.660
And yeah, it was a lot of work before we did EMDR.

00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:30.059
And then it got to the point she's like, Do you want to consider EMDR?

00:23:30.619 --> 00:23:49.019
And um, like when you said that light feeling, uh, the second time we did it was specific to that um trauma for my relationship, and it was all of a sudden just like this heavy weight just released, and I'm like, I almost feel like I'm floating.

00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:59.259
This is the weirdest feeling, and I couldn't, I was I had been crying profusely before, and then all of a sudden I'm smiling and I'm like, Whoa, this is the best feeling.

00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:00.940
Yeah, it's incredible.

00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:16.700
Um you know, if you had come to me and said, if you would had come to me as a therapist and said, Hey, uh, everything's in this neat little box, I don't really want to touch it, I would have said, Would you be okay with me keeping the box for a little bit?

00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:17.819
Uh-huh.

00:24:18.380 --> 00:24:25.339
And then maybe someday we can open it together, but pack it up before you leave the office every time.

00:24:26.380 --> 00:24:28.460
And then interestingly, the box is not needed.

00:24:28.700 --> 00:24:35.740
And actually, that's a tool that we use in EMDR if we don't complete a target in a session, which is very common that we don't complete a target.

00:24:35.980 --> 00:24:42.779
We put we imagine putting it in a box, and then I say, Okay, you're gonna leave the box with me, and then we'll come back to it next week.

00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:53.900
I also like when I went in, I also knew that I that box had to get opened and I had to, and I was super, I'm like, listen, let's do this.

00:24:53.980 --> 00:24:56.779
I was that person like, oh, EMDR, yeah, let's do it now.

00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:59.180
Am I going to be better like in an hour?

00:24:59.259 --> 00:25:00.539
That's awesome.

00:25:01.579 --> 00:25:02.859
No, um no.

00:25:03.579 --> 00:25:05.579
So are there any side effects?

00:25:05.660 --> 00:25:10.299
I don't know if that you would call it side effects, but uh to EMDR that people should be aware of.

00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:10.940
Yeah.

00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:17.099
Um, if you're taking any kind of psychotropic, actually any medication, sometimes there can be interactions.

00:25:17.259 --> 00:25:24.940
Um, you know, like I was once working with someone who had to be on beta blockers, and so I had to talk to her doctor and we got like special permission.

00:25:25.099 --> 00:25:29.819
Like, don't take a beta blocker before EMDR because it'll prevent you from getting activated.

00:25:30.140 --> 00:25:39.339
You know, um, so sometimes there can be like a medication interaction if you're heavily using drugs or alcohol, also can affect the effectiveness.

00:25:39.500 --> 00:25:51.019
But as far as side effects of EMDR, um I hear what the thing I hear the most is feeling really tired or having like a mild headache.

00:25:51.339 --> 00:26:00.539
Um, when I was doing EMDR with eye movements, um, when I was working primarily in person, I was hearing much more headaches and eye strain.

00:26:00.779 --> 00:26:04.619
But um these days I do mostly either the beeping or tapping.

00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:09.420
Um, it's like a butterfly hug on yourself, and I guide you when to do it.

00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:20.140
Um, and we're not gonna have eye strain with that because there's no moving the eyes furiously back and forth that was causing a lot of headaches, uh headaches and eye strain.

00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:22.140
But uh headaches are somewhat common.

00:26:22.220 --> 00:26:26.059
I mean, like you're building new neural pathways, you're gonna be tired.

00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:26.940
That's hard work.

00:26:27.099 --> 00:26:30.380
Your body is generating new connections.

00:26:30.619 --> 00:26:36.380
So, so yeah, I would expect tiredness and I would expect maybe you know, mild headache.

00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:43.579
If you have any like really, really notable side effects, um, talk to your therapist about it.

00:26:43.900 --> 00:26:44.220
Yeah.

00:26:44.700 --> 00:26:47.819
I had, I don't even know if it was my therapist that told me.

00:26:47.900 --> 00:26:54.539
I think it was maybe somebody, an acquaintance that had done EMDR said that they had really strange dreams after that.

00:26:55.259 --> 00:26:57.420
And so I was I was all anticipating.

00:26:57.579 --> 00:26:59.740
I'm like, oh, I can't wait to see what my dreams are.

00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:04.859
But I did I think I was so fatigued that I didn't dream.

00:27:05.019 --> 00:27:12.380
I don't think I I mean I might have had some dreams in there, but nothing that was notable for enough for me to say I had the weirdest dream.

00:27:12.619 --> 00:27:24.299
Um I I do hear about weird dreams, occasionally a disturbing dream, but you know, we're we're we're stirring things up, you know, stuff is coming to the surface.

00:27:24.619 --> 00:27:34.779
And um it's very rare that I've worked with someone who's not seen some relief from EMDR eventually.

00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:38.779
Yeah, I I mean I had a huge, a tremendous, tremendous change.

00:27:38.940 --> 00:27:46.859
Um did have you found that either the eye movement or the the audio does one work better than another?

00:27:47.019 --> 00:27:48.859
Or is it does it just vary per person?

00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:54.779
Okay some people are really visual people with a really visual person.

00:27:55.339 --> 00:27:57.420
Um I I might try the eye movements.

00:27:57.500 --> 00:28:06.859
It's a little awkward because I work virtually, so for the eye movements to happen, they would have to be so close up to their screen that it would feel weird.

00:28:07.019 --> 00:28:09.980
Like I like seeing just like the whites of their eyes.

00:28:10.460 --> 00:28:11.740
Oh, that would be so weird.

00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:26.539
Um But I always start with the butterfly tapping, um, just because uh I can vocally guide it and it also helps people stay more connected to their body, which I think you can kind of separate the head out more.

00:28:26.779 --> 00:28:32.460
Um, and then the beeping if people are really like, you know, um sound oriented.

00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:39.019
Some be and you know, if it's not working with one form of bilateral, um I just try another.

00:28:39.339 --> 00:28:45.500
Most of the research has been done on the eye movements, so I think that a lot of people default to that.

00:28:45.740 --> 00:28:47.420
Um, but it's rare.

00:28:47.660 --> 00:28:55.099
I I don't think I've had anyone that didn't respond somewhat well to um butterfly hold tapping.

00:28:55.339 --> 00:29:01.500
And I think because it is in the body and can ground you in the present in in a way.

00:29:01.660 --> 00:29:10.059
Um yeah, the research would say start with eye movements, but that's because that's how all the initial research was done.

00:29:10.539 --> 00:29:12.619
Um Fran Dr.

00:29:12.779 --> 00:29:24.460
Francine Shapiro, who discovered and developed EMDR, um, she was walking through a park in Brooklyn and thinking about something upsetting and moving her eyes side to side.

00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:28.619
And she found after a while that she the upsetting thing wasn't upsetting.

00:29:28.700 --> 00:29:30.700
And she was like, huh, I wonder what's here.

00:29:30.940 --> 00:29:45.819
And so she spent the rest of her career researching what is this bilateral stimulation and how does it affect the way memory is processed, and from that built the protocol for EMDR, which is what's used today.

00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:47.500
Wow, I had no idea.

00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:48.859
That is crazy.

00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:58.619
So the the eye movement part, it were they thinking there was a link, like when you go to sleep and you have, you know, the rapid eye movement when you're sleeping.

00:29:59.019 --> 00:30:00.380
Is there any connection with that?

00:30:00.859 --> 00:30:01.980
I don't know.

00:30:02.380 --> 00:30:20.220
Um, but uh what we do know is when there's bilateral stimulation, so side to side movement of some kind, it does help with uh memory kind of like cataloging and and the way that things are stored.

00:30:21.099 --> 00:30:23.339
And I think that this is me.

00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:24.940
Just theorizing.

00:30:25.099 --> 00:30:33.660
But as we become a more and more sedentary society, I think you know bilateral movement is less and less a part of our day.

00:30:33.740 --> 00:30:39.339
I think we're seeing more and more unprocessed trauma coming up.

00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:43.339
We're less in touch with our bodies, we're not moving very much.

00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:48.059
Uh and uh yeah, there's something there, I think.

00:30:48.460 --> 00:30:49.660
Oh, that makes sense.

00:30:50.779 --> 00:30:54.700
I'm also thinking that I wish I would have known about the butterfly tap when I was in college.

00:30:54.859 --> 00:30:59.500
Like, would it would it have made me remember everything for exams and stuff?

00:31:01.339 --> 00:31:15.339
Well, if um if people want to try a resourcing activity, because obviously we would never process trauma on a podcast when I can't see you or you know, um the can't see listeners.

00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:25.819
Um but you can use the butterfly tapping to enhance your access to positive memories and sensations.

00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:27.660
And I actually would recommend this.

00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:46.619
So let's say you like go on a really beautiful hike with a friend, like that night, just spend some time reflecting on just that the beauty of the day and the connection and the views and like the sun and the animals and how you felt in your body moving out in nature.

00:31:46.859 --> 00:31:51.420
Spend some time like vividly recalling that and tapping side to side.

00:31:51.660 --> 00:32:00.140
That will enhance your resilience and your ability to cope, and it will give you wider access to those positive feelings.

00:32:00.460 --> 00:32:01.019
Yeah.

00:32:01.339 --> 00:32:06.460
And and I always forget that people, not everybody is watching and that some people are listening.

00:32:06.619 --> 00:32:17.099
So the the butterfly tap is like your arms are across each other and you're just tapping holding your shoulders across your chest and tapping side to side alternately.

00:32:17.339 --> 00:32:17.660
Yeah.

00:32:18.619 --> 00:32:18.940
Okay.

00:32:19.420 --> 00:32:24.859
Um is there anything about else about EMDR that you can think of?

00:32:25.259 --> 00:32:32.220
I hear a lot of people ask about like complex trauma or like, does it work for things beyond trauma?

00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:32.779
Okay.

00:32:33.019 --> 00:32:46.140
And the answer is yes, but you need a skilled EMDR therapist, like probably one that um understands attachment very well, that is doing a very thorough resourcing phase.

00:32:46.299 --> 00:32:51.579
I have a clinician like this on my team who like her specialty is complex trauma.

00:32:51.980 --> 00:33:01.339
And um she it really is about like how do you repair those early attachment relationships that you didn't get?

00:33:01.819 --> 00:33:07.819
How do you kind of give yourself the nurturing and the safety that you never experienced?

00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:24.140
So you can with a very strong relationship with your therapist and a very skilled therapist who understands yeah, we're not just processing acute incidents here, and that they have kind of a game plan for how they approach that.

00:33:24.460 --> 00:33:45.980
Um and just in case somebody doesn't know what complex trauma is, yeah, it's it's anything that occurred like in relationship with a primary caregiver or like it kind of deprived you of a sense of safety and stability, and like knowing there was a nurturing adult there to protect you as a child.

00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:50.779
So that might not even be something that somebody's aware of right away.

00:33:51.339 --> 00:33:53.180
I mean, fish don't notice the water.

00:33:56.299 --> 00:34:08.140
I've never heard that it's been your normal, if it's always been your normal, then yeah, you're gonna walk through life feeling hyper-vigilant, feeling distrustful of others, feeling like the only safety is in yourself.

00:34:08.859 --> 00:34:14.140
And that's completely understandable in that scenario.

00:34:15.099 --> 00:34:45.739
Now, is that EMDR the same as if you're dealing with a specific trauma, but it's just you need somebody that's more trained into more trained, and they want to also be incorporating elements of um potentially like parts work, internal family systems, attachment theory, tons of resourcing, and uh there's something else that I'm thinking of that it just um ran out of my mind.

00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:56.699
But they they need to be it's a more creative approach rather than okay, this memory, then we're gonna go through the whole, you know, cycle of it because it is really complex.

00:34:57.019 --> 00:35:00.860
And so the that would be a much longer term treatment.

00:35:01.579 --> 00:35:04.940
And uh your so your company is called Laurel Cl Collective.

00:35:05.260 --> 00:35:06.380
Laurel Therapy Collective.

00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:07.900
Okay, Laurel Therapy Collective.

00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:11.340
And is it um your is it all virtual or do you do it?

00:35:11.659 --> 00:35:15.019
All virtual and we can serve people in California and Florida.

00:35:15.340 --> 00:35:17.739
Okay, so how would people get in touch with you?

00:35:18.059 --> 00:35:20.699
Yeah, our website is Laureltherapy.net.

00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:22.460
Okay, that's easy.

00:35:23.019 --> 00:35:26.300
Um, is there anything that you think that we've missed at all?

00:35:26.780 --> 00:35:28.300
No, I don't think so.

00:35:28.619 --> 00:35:29.500
I think we covered it.

00:35:29.659 --> 00:35:32.059
I think I mean EMDR is great.

00:35:32.539 --> 00:35:39.900
Actually, um, just to get into the history of it, was there any specific kind of trauma that it was initially directed toward?

00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:45.179
Well, I mean, our understanding of trauma is evolving.

00:35:45.340 --> 00:35:50.940
And a hundred years ago, you know, people were coming back from World War I a little different.

00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:55.179
And people, so the term shell shock was developed.

00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:59.500
And, you know, people thought only combat veterans could experience trauma.

00:35:59.579 --> 00:36:15.420
But then they realized actually the next group to be included in our understanding of trauma was sexual trauma survivors that they were seeing like, huh, these people that have had sexual trauma and these people who've been like in active combat are showing the same symptoms.

00:36:15.739 --> 00:36:17.019
Fascinating.

00:36:17.340 --> 00:36:22.539
So then after Vietnam, like actually like a lot more research went into studying trauma.

00:36:22.699 --> 00:36:37.579
But as far as EMDR, they first used it on combat veterans and first responders, um, that these kind of big T, like acute traumas, even though they're not really acute, if you're in an active combat zone, there's going to be multiple traumas all the time.

00:36:37.900 --> 00:36:51.980
But kind of these like um, you know, discrete periods of time where it's like, okay, you come back from your tour of duty, and then that's like um theoretically over, but it's never over.

00:36:52.219 --> 00:36:59.260
Um, so they did a lot of early research on EMDR on combat veterans and on first responders.

00:36:59.420 --> 00:37:17.340
And EMDR had gained some traction by then, but I remember that after 9-11, a lot of first responders were wearing these little buttons that said EMDR, it's effing magic because it's not a modality that requires a ton of talking about your feelings.

00:37:17.500 --> 00:37:35.260
Like, there's definitely like some talking about feelings, but there's kind of an efficiency and like an economy to it where, like, you know, like a police officer or a firefighter, like who maybe isn't a therapy person, might be more comfortable with it, even though it looks and sounds totally woo.

00:37:35.420 --> 00:37:37.019
Once you're like, oh, there's science behind it.

00:37:37.099 --> 00:37:39.420
They're like, Yeah, okay, I want to be able to go back to work.

00:37:39.659 --> 00:37:43.659
Yeah, and it's almost like you you're like an active participant in it.

00:37:43.820 --> 00:37:44.619
I mean, you have to be.

00:37:44.780 --> 00:37:51.820
I mean, you're an active participant in all therapy, but it's like you're really actually working to get to that.

00:37:52.059 --> 00:37:54.059
Um you can stop anytime you want.

00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:58.940
Like it's not hypnosis, like you're not, you do not lose control at any point.

00:37:59.260 --> 00:38:09.340
You might feel really overcome with emotion or like you know, overwhelmed, but um, but yeah, you're always in control.

00:38:09.659 --> 00:38:10.059
Yeah.

00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:16.780
For me, I found, you know, there would be sometimes I'd, you know, be there, be wherever, and I'd feel okay.

00:38:16.860 --> 00:38:21.900
And then all of a sudden, just a wave of emotion would just hit and I would start crying.

00:38:22.059 --> 00:38:23.579
I was like, where did that come from?

00:38:23.820 --> 00:38:28.699
And um, because yeah, I had separated myself from a lot of it.

00:38:28.940 --> 00:38:32.619
Um to survive and adaptive coping.

00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:33.260
Exactly.

00:38:33.980 --> 00:38:37.500
Your body was telling you maybe this isn't working anymore.

00:38:37.900 --> 00:38:38.460
Right.

00:38:39.500 --> 00:38:46.219
So, what how does it happen with um like somebody who was in combat and there's multiple incidents of trauma?

00:38:46.300 --> 00:38:52.619
Is do you have to do it for each individual one or do you focus on like a major traumatic?

00:38:52.940 --> 00:38:53.500
Yeah.

00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:56.219
Not you don't usually have to do each one.

00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:57.420
That's a great question.

00:38:57.659 --> 00:39:02.219
Like, do you have to process every trauma in your life to experience related art?

00:39:02.460 --> 00:39:03.980
The answer is no, you do not.

00:39:04.300 --> 00:39:08.780
So most trauma falls in like somewhat of a chain.

00:39:09.019 --> 00:39:11.659
Like we have um we all have like a couple chains, right?

00:39:11.739 --> 00:39:14.860
Like that there's, you know, um, like I'll I'll make something up.

00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:18.219
Like you have a chain that is the I'm not lovable chain.

00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:24.059
You have the chain that's I'm not safe, you have the chain that's I'm not capable, right?

00:39:24.219 --> 00:39:36.460
And then if you can find a spit like the linchpin memory in those lines of dominoes that have been set up, if you can knock out the right one, it'll take the rest with them often.

00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:38.539
Oh, that's a great description of that.

00:39:39.260 --> 00:39:39.900
Yeah.

00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:53.179
So, you know, even though I work with incredible people and a lot of them very accomplished, very successful, ambitious, and I'm no longer surprised.

00:39:53.260 --> 00:40:01.659
But often if we like are taking like a feeling state or something that we're like, yeah, why do why do we have this thought or this fear that's coming up?

00:40:01.900 --> 00:40:06.380
It goes back to like being forgotten at school or like something like that.

00:40:06.539 --> 00:40:08.619
Like, you know, these like badass people.

00:40:08.860 --> 00:40:09.179
Yeah.

00:40:09.420 --> 00:40:11.980
And this, like, yeah, I was forgotten at school.

00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:13.340
I was the only kid there.

00:40:13.420 --> 00:40:18.860
I was like sitting in the, you know, sitting in the I know, I know.

00:40:19.420 --> 00:40:26.380
And you know, these, but these memories, like we can logically as adults know, like, yeah, I was perfectly safe.

00:40:26.539 --> 00:40:34.059
Like my mom had car trouble that day, but still we go back into this, like, I'm forgotten, I'm alone, you know?

00:40:34.219 --> 00:40:34.619
Yeah.

00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:41.739
Um, so when we can find it, doesn't have to necessarily be objectively the worst thing that's ever happened to you.

00:40:41.980 --> 00:40:47.420
It's just that linchpin domino, and taking that one out eliminates the whole string.

00:40:47.579 --> 00:40:54.139
Now, sometimes you have a whole bunch of linchpin dominoes, but if we tend to have clusters.

00:40:54.380 --> 00:41:01.980
So with the combat example, it would be like, was there a first or a worst event that happened?

00:41:02.300 --> 00:41:07.340
And you would start with that one and then see if the other ones fall with it.

00:41:07.579 --> 00:41:07.900
Okay.

00:41:08.139 --> 00:41:10.619
Um, and if they don't, it's like, okay, that's interesting.

00:41:10.699 --> 00:41:15.980
I wonder what else is going on here, and then kind of getting in there until you until the line falls.

00:41:16.300 --> 00:41:17.260
Oh my goodness.

00:41:17.420 --> 00:41:17.579
Yeah.

00:41:17.900 --> 00:41:19.739
It has to be exhausting for you too, right?

00:41:19.820 --> 00:41:21.179
Like, I feel like I know.

00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:21.820
No, no.

00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:23.019
I mean, I would need to sleep.

00:41:24.380 --> 00:41:48.300
It's so energizing because like I get just enough sessions a week where there's like resolution or like a breakthrough, or like, you know, someone like has like such a beautiful outcome, and like, you know, they like unlock a new part of themselves, like they're in a new relationship and it's actually a healthy one, or like, you know, they get a job offer or like they take a big risk and it pans out.

00:41:48.380 --> 00:41:58.539
Like, there's so much of that that I'm privy to that I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna get in there with you and figure out which of these we need to clear out so that you can like live a better life.

00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:00.699
So it's not exhausting at all.

00:42:00.860 --> 00:42:02.619
I don't think I have a hard job.

00:42:02.940 --> 00:42:03.579
Oh, okay.

00:42:03.739 --> 00:42:07.579
Well, that's good because I think you have a hard job.

00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:08.860
Um, all right.

00:42:09.260 --> 00:42:10.619
You already gave the website.

00:42:10.780 --> 00:42:12.619
So we have how to get in touch with you.

00:42:12.699 --> 00:42:19.659
Um, do you have any lasting like uh encouragement or wisdom that you would like to leave with listeners?

00:42:19.980 --> 00:42:20.619
Yeah.

00:42:21.340 --> 00:42:23.260
Um, yes, I definitely do.

00:42:23.420 --> 00:42:40.219
First, I want to say if you want to learn like in a lot more detail about EMDR, we actually have a free webinar you can watch at any point on our website on the EMDR page where we actually made like a fake client and we walked through all eight phases of EMDR and what that looked like for her.

00:42:40.380 --> 00:42:45.820
Um, and like what so and it it is the college athlete example to hopefully not be too triggering.

00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:49.900
So, and we don't go into any like description of the injury.

00:42:50.139 --> 00:42:52.619
Um, but so that's available.

00:42:52.860 --> 00:43:01.340
But um, yes, the last thing I want to say to people is you're never gonna feel 100% ready for EMDR.

00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:02.780
Like, just like you did.

00:43:02.940 --> 00:43:10.059
Like you can come into therapy and say, Hey, I have this like very locked box and I know I need to open it at some point.

00:43:10.380 --> 00:43:12.539
Can you help me get ready to open it?

00:43:12.780 --> 00:43:19.260
And the therapist should say yes, because like you're never gonna wake up and be like, I am ready to face my trauma.

00:43:19.420 --> 00:43:23.659
So start when you're almost ready, because that's as ready as you're gonna be.

00:43:24.539 --> 00:43:25.500
That's perfect.

00:43:25.659 --> 00:43:26.780
That's exactly right.

00:43:27.019 --> 00:43:30.539
Well, thank you so much, Laurel, for your time and explaining all of this.

00:43:30.619 --> 00:43:35.659
I think it's such an incredible modality that is super, super helpful.

00:43:35.739 --> 00:43:39.099
Um, and I think a lot more people should explore it as an option.

00:43:39.340 --> 00:43:42.460
But thank you again for coming on and sharing all that with us.

00:43:42.780 --> 00:43:44.940
I'm always happy to talk about EMDR.

00:43:45.099 --> 00:43:45.980
Okay, thanks.

00:43:48.460 --> 00:43:55.340
Find more information, register as a guest, or leave a review by going to the website onein3podcast.com.

00:43:55.500 --> 00:43:59.900
That's the number one the number three podcast.com.

00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:04.780
Follow one in three on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at one and three podcast.

00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:09.099
To help me out, please remember to rate review and subscribe.

00:44:09.340 --> 00:44:12.219
One in three is a point five Panoy production.

00:44:12.380 --> 00:44:15.179
Music written and performed by Tim Crow.