Feb. 3, 2026

106-When Masculinity Turns Dangerous: Consent, Power, and Violence Through Immersive Art with Christopher Quigley

What if confronting masculinity required stepping inside it? In this episode of 1 in 3, Ingrid sits down with artist Christopher Quigley, whose immersive traveling installation asks men and boys to physically experience how power, consent, and violence are learned—and how quickly harm can unfold. Across eight sound-sealed bathroom stalls, participants are immersed in scenarios shaped by locker room culture, coercive language, and exhaustion that blurs consent. From a stall where misogyny is p...

Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
YouTube podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
iHeartRadio podcast player badge
Deezer podcast player badge
PlayerFM podcast player badge
Podcast Addict podcast player badge
Podchaser podcast player badge
PocketCasts podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
Castbox podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon YouTube podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon iHeartRadio podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon PlayerFM podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon Castbox podcast player icon
Season 4

What if confronting masculinity required stepping inside it?

In this episode of 1 in 3, Ingrid sits down with artist Christopher Quigley, whose immersive traveling installation asks men and boys to physically experience how power, consent, and violence are learned—and how quickly harm can unfold.

Across eight sound-sealed bathroom stalls, participants are immersed in scenarios shaped by locker room culture, coercive language, and exhaustion that blurs consent. From a stall where misogyny is passed through jokes and laughter, to the “71 No's” consent experience that challenges the idea of a pressured yes, to the chilling “21-Second” stall that reveals how fast violence can escalate, this work forces reflection not just in the mind—but in the body.

The conversation expands beyond art into prevention, economics, and policy. We unpack the real financial cost of domestic violence, why prevention outperforms awareness campaigns, and how education—especially for legal and community gatekeepers—can interrupt coercive control before it becomes physical harm.

This is art as public health. Art as accountability. And art as a catalyst for cultural change.

Subscribe, share, and leave a review to help more people find this conversation—and help accelerate the erosion of harm.

Christopher’s Links:

https://www.alchemiaartworkshop.org/

https://www.tiktok.com/@alchemiaart

1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.

Support the show

If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.

Contact 1 in 3:

Thank you for listening!

Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe

00:00 - Welcome And Mission

01:53 - Christopher’s Path And Stroke

07:03 - Elaine Mosher And Purpose

12:23 - From Housing Idea To Engaging Men

17:13 - Why The Bathroom Becomes The Medium

21:43 - The Eight-Stall Installation Vision

25:53 - Locker Room Socialization And Online Radicalization

30:13 - The Consent Stall And 71 Nos

34:03 - The 21-Second Stall And Visceral Impact

38:43 - Complicity, Jokes, And Language

44:33 - Individual Experience Inside A Collective Din

49:53 - Economics Of Gender-Based Violence

56:03 - Policy Outreach And Data Collection

01:01:53 - Prevention Over Awareness

01:07:43 - Erosion, Entropy, And Optimism

01:14:13 - Touring Plans, Podcast, And How To Help

WEBVTT

00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.740
Hi Warriors, welcome to One in Three.

00:00:25.820 --> 00:00:26.940
I'm your host, Ingrid.

00:00:27.500 --> 00:00:32.859
You know, one of my biggest goals here is to raise awareness on domestic violence.

00:00:33.100 --> 00:00:42.780
And one of the best parts of this journey has been meeting people who are just as passionate and honestly a lot more creative than I am.

00:00:43.100 --> 00:01:00.060
My guest today is Christopher Quigley, an incredible artist who is using immersive art to raise awareness and to help people, specifically men and boys, recognize the role they play in intimate partner violence.

00:01:00.380 --> 00:01:05.659
Seriously, you have to listen to this episode to hear what he is creating.

00:01:05.900 --> 00:01:07.259
It's amazing.

00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:09.259
So anyway, enough of this preview.

00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:11.259
Let's jump in to the conversation.

00:01:11.579 --> 00:01:12.299
Hi, Christopher.

00:01:12.379 --> 00:01:15.659
I'm thrilled to have you here and welcome and thank you for joining me.

00:01:15.979 --> 00:01:17.020
Thanks, Ingrid.

00:01:17.180 --> 00:01:18.060
I really appreciate it.

00:01:18.219 --> 00:01:19.020
Thanks.

00:01:19.579 --> 00:01:24.140
Okay, so I'm very actually very, very, very excited about our conversation.

00:01:24.219 --> 00:01:29.739
But before we jump into that, could you just give some of a background so we can all get to know you?

00:01:30.140 --> 00:01:32.299
My name is Christopher Quigley.

00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:33.180
I'm an artist.

00:01:33.340 --> 00:01:36.299
I live on the east coast of Nova Scotia.

00:01:36.700 --> 00:01:40.700
I live in a little town called Mahone Bay with about a thousand people.

00:01:41.260 --> 00:01:45.420
Previous to this, I had been living in Manhattan for about a decade.

00:01:45.659 --> 00:01:48.379
And I come from a fabrication background.

00:01:48.620 --> 00:01:54.780
I've been involved in businesses and companies that have built large-scale custom items.

00:01:54.859 --> 00:02:04.299
And one of the largest ones that uh one of the most notable that we that we've ever built was uh the chandelier that's in Cleveland, Ohio.

00:02:04.459 --> 00:02:08.939
That's in between the theater and the financial district, and here in the Guinness Book of World Records.

00:02:09.180 --> 00:02:13.980
So my background is I have built big things my entire career.

00:02:14.540 --> 00:02:29.340
And I am now embarking on a national and international uh public art campaign uh that addresses gender-based violence and antibic partner violence with an immersive and interactive public art installation.

00:02:29.659 --> 00:02:36.539
And I'm so I mean, I keep saying I'm excited, but I really have ever since we did our pre-interview, I've been really looking forward to this.

00:02:36.780 --> 00:02:43.259
So before we get into all the details of that, can you just say why you decided to do this?

00:02:43.900 --> 00:02:49.740
So so coming from Manhattan, um, you know, every day, you know, there was a murder.

00:02:49.979 --> 00:03:00.139
It's Manhattan, you know, you've got several million people, and it's uh it's it's a sad reality that's in that it that that's a time that we live in that that is an inevitability.

00:03:00.379 --> 00:03:08.780
And so when I moved to Mahong Bay, and when I came back to Canada, um, I was trying to figure out where I wanted to live.

00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:13.900
And I started on the west coast of Canada and I drove across the country until I ran out of land.

00:03:14.219 --> 00:03:20.539
Um, ended up in a little a little tiny community called Kingsburg, and then came back to Mahong Bay.

00:03:20.780 --> 00:03:28.939
And unfortunately, on April 25th, 2023, at 10 a.m., I suffered a massive stroke in front of a pie shop.

00:03:29.099 --> 00:03:38.460
Um, I had two strokes in total, one um, one in front of a pie shop, which I couldn't think of anything being more poetic than stroking out in front of a pie shop.

00:03:38.620 --> 00:03:45.819
Um, and another one, and I wasn't expected that I I well, there wasn't I wasn't expected to live through the second one.

00:03:46.139 --> 00:03:50.460
Um, but it rewired me in a way that I'm really kind of grateful for.

00:03:50.539 --> 00:03:54.060
I'm a very different man than I was previous to the stroke.

00:03:54.219 --> 00:03:55.580
I am far more emotional.

00:03:55.740 --> 00:04:02.860
I am um I have access to my emotions at a at a at a uh it's a bit of a trigger finger.

00:04:02.939 --> 00:04:07.340
So I'm when we had our pre-interview, I was like, I cry really easily.

00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:10.060
So we'll be prepared for that.

00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:17.980
Um, but in this little town on January 5th, 2025, um, there was a woman that was murdered in my small town.

00:04:18.139 --> 00:04:19.659
Her name was Elaine Mosher.

00:04:20.300 --> 00:04:35.500
I always want to give her name, and I always want to make sure that I say her name because like we always talk about statistics about women that were killed by their partners through intimate partner violence or some sort of gender-based violence, and they just become a statistic.

00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:40.699
And I wanted to bring, keep her name in my mouth.

00:04:40.939 --> 00:04:42.459
I want to keep saying her name.

00:04:42.540 --> 00:04:47.740
Her name was Elaine Mosher, and she had a life, and she had a family, and she had people that loved her.

00:04:47.899 --> 00:04:53.339
And she lived in this little town, and it affected me.

00:04:53.579 --> 00:04:55.500
Really, really affected me.

00:04:55.660 --> 00:04:58.060
And I had to do something to get involved.

00:04:58.220 --> 00:04:59.259
I had to do something.

00:04:59.420 --> 00:05:01.579
I had a unique background.

00:05:01.819 --> 00:05:05.339
I had resources and I have the ability to.

00:05:05.579 --> 00:05:07.899
I'm, you know, I'll just put this out there.

00:05:08.139 --> 00:05:13.019
I am a gay white male, and I have a lot of privilege, and I can probably make anything happen.

00:05:13.180 --> 00:05:15.339
I don't have a lot of limitations.

00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:26.860
And so I went to a woman named Kellyanne Hamshaw, who is the executive director of Harbor House Transition Services, and said, I needed to do something.

00:05:27.019 --> 00:05:28.379
I really need to get involved.

00:05:28.459 --> 00:05:30.860
And the idea was to create housing.

00:05:31.180 --> 00:05:34.220
That was the original idea, to create housing.

00:05:34.300 --> 00:05:56.939
And one of the possibilities was buy the house that Elaine was murdered in, convert it, renovate it, cleanse it, and donate it back to one of the transition services for housing so that women, when they leave the emergency crisis shelter, can move into a really nice house and turn something that was a really negative experience into something that would be really positive and really lovely.

00:05:57.019 --> 00:06:00.300
And in her name, in Elaine Mosher's name.

00:06:00.540 --> 00:06:03.899
And Kellyanne was like, thank you, but no, thank you.

00:06:04.060 --> 00:06:10.620
And I was really kind of, I was devastated at that because I was like, We, you know, I have the we have this ability to do this.

00:06:10.779 --> 00:06:15.579
And she's like, we have a capital housing plan in in plan already, but thank you.

00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:17.100
But I looked you up.

00:06:17.339 --> 00:06:19.980
She's like, you know, you're a middle-aged man.

00:06:20.139 --> 00:06:23.980
I had to look you up to see who you were and, you know, see your history.

00:06:24.139 --> 00:06:37.660
And she goes, she just said, you know, would you be interested in creating something that allowed men to step up and to take a more active role in solving gender-based violence and intimate partner violence?

00:06:37.740 --> 00:06:44.779
And this was part of a plan that came out through something called the mass casualty report.

00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:55.100
Um, we had a mass shooting here, and it was uh it was a devastating thing that happened in our in our in our country, and it's very rare.

00:06:55.259 --> 00:06:57.420
It's a very rare, rare, rare occurrence.

00:06:57.579 --> 00:07:12.220
So we had a mass casualty report that came out, and one of the issues that came up was that this person that had committed this atrocity um also had been involved with you know uh intimate partner violence and had a history of that.

00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:15.420
So he was, he was, it was it was a bad situation.

00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:17.180
And she said, you know, would you be interested?

00:07:17.259 --> 00:07:18.220
And I said, you know what?

00:07:18.379 --> 00:07:23.100
Yes, I would, not knowing what it was that I was going to create.

00:07:23.339 --> 00:07:29.740
But her and I just sat and chatted, and we did this for weeks, and we called it our waiting for Godot moments.

00:07:29.980 --> 00:07:35.259
And I don't know if you've ever seen the play or read the book or the movie Waiting for Godot.

00:07:35.579 --> 00:07:40.220
I don't recommend it, it's really boring, and so I'll give you the, I'll give you the I'll give you the Coles notes.

00:07:40.379 --> 00:07:45.899
It's two guys in a tree talking about systems, waiting for somebody to show up to clear up the system.

00:07:46.060 --> 00:07:49.259
And this was our, we called it our waiting for Godot moments.

00:07:49.339 --> 00:07:53.740
You know, I don't mean to be esoteric, but um, this is just what we called it.

00:07:53.980 --> 00:08:19.740
And so I can't I went away for about eight weeks and came back with this idea of this project and kind of understood and I had this understanding that you know, within every home and every every trope that we've ever seen in in movies and plays and books, women always lock themselves in the bathroom because it's the safest room.

00:08:19.819 --> 00:08:21.740
It's the only one that has a lock.

00:08:22.379 --> 00:08:27.500
And so, and I had to look at my own history because I have a history, you know.

00:08:27.579 --> 00:08:31.500
I lived with, you know, my father was uh was an abusive man.

00:08:31.819 --> 00:08:40.059
Um he I remember him when I was four years old, the very first time that I remember him abusing my mother.

00:08:40.220 --> 00:08:42.620
And I recall that very clearly.

00:08:43.100 --> 00:08:55.259
And I recall the times when I was growing up, where the scariest place for me was was the locker room in the boys' bathroom in school, because that's where I got beat up.

00:08:55.339 --> 00:09:06.779
That's where I got made fun of, that's where I learned the vernacular, that's where I learned the misogyny and I heard the jokes and laughed at the jokes, and where I'd been assaulted was in the bathroom.

00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:29.820
So I wanted to take that space, the bathroom, a public bathroom or a bathroom with a door with a lock, and transform that space from that final dangerous space that someone is in and use it as the medium and as the space, both metaphorical and uh literal, to be like this is where it starts.

00:09:29.980 --> 00:09:32.299
This is how boys are socialized.

00:09:32.539 --> 00:09:42.139
This is this is a piece that's meant for boys, young men, and men to experience to go, here's a mirror, here's what you've learned, here's what you've been taught.

00:09:42.379 --> 00:09:47.019
And when you show them what they've been taught, then they can accept it and understand it.

00:09:48.059 --> 00:09:51.980
So um, it's eight bathroom stalls.

00:09:52.059 --> 00:10:05.820
It's part of a traveling uh public art immersive exhibition, and it's eight separate bathroom stalls that each deal with a theme of gender-based violence or intimate partner violence.

00:10:06.139 --> 00:10:17.820
And so that's how this really all came about was, and it's dedicated to Elaine Mosher and her family and all the other women that had been that have been murdered.

00:10:17.980 --> 00:10:31.100
This goes to the December 6th anniversary, which is the uh anniversary of the shooting at Ecole Polytechnique, where um another mass shooting it happened 30 years ago, 31 years ago.

00:10:31.259 --> 00:10:34.139
So that's how this happened, that's how this started.

00:10:34.460 --> 00:10:46.940
Was had a stroke, rewired my brain, wanted to do something because the first half of my life, and I'm 52, you know, the first half of my life I did really well.

00:10:48.059 --> 00:10:50.379
This half I need to do good.

00:10:50.860 --> 00:11:07.500
So I'm taking this second chance that I got after the stroke to do good with what I have been given and the resources that I have and the skills that I have and the acumen that I have to put something out into the world that will do some good.

00:11:08.620 --> 00:11:26.539
And before we get into more of the details of the actual art piece, do you think that just the way your life played out, the fact that you had the stroke and then you moved to this area and you found out about Elaine, do you think if it had not happened in that order, do you think that you would have felt this drive to do it?

00:11:27.500 --> 00:11:30.860
It's hard not to mythologize stuff like this.

00:11:31.100 --> 00:11:32.460
So I understand that.

00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:35.980
And I am where I am because of where I am.

00:11:36.299 --> 00:11:48.220
Um, you know, the things that have led to this part of my life, all the all the things and the decisions and the actions and all the things that have happened to me have led to this point.

00:11:48.779 --> 00:11:54.460
Um and it was actually a friend of mine that said it's kind of hard not to mythologize these kind of things.

00:11:54.620 --> 00:11:57.100
And I was like, Yeah, you know, it's really it's hard not to.

00:11:57.259 --> 00:11:59.580
It's like, but he's like, you know, there are no circumstances.

00:11:59.659 --> 00:12:00.539
Or what is that?

00:12:00.700 --> 00:12:02.299
There are no coincidences.

00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:04.220
Sorry, there are no coincidences.

00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:14.940
And I don't think, I don't believe that I would have come to this without those things having happened.

00:12:15.659 --> 00:12:24.539
And being able to meet with somebody like Kellyanne who saw something in me and was like, would you be willing to take something like this on?

00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:27.740
This is a big and I thought it was going to be regional.

00:12:28.059 --> 00:12:39.580
And now it's turned into something that's going across my country, and now I'm being invited to galleries in the United States to present this project in galleries throughout the United States.

00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:42.620
And who knows where it'll go after this?

00:12:42.860 --> 00:12:52.460
But that's um that's the long answer to a uh question that I think probably just could have been like, yes, yes.

00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:53.980
I I don't I already know.

00:12:54.139 --> 00:12:57.500
I don't think I would have come up with this if these things hadn't happened to me.

00:12:57.740 --> 00:12:59.500
I don't think I'd be on this path.

00:12:59.980 --> 00:13:00.220
Right.

00:13:00.379 --> 00:13:09.500
One of my favorite things in is speaking with individuals who have things happen to them in this specific order.

00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:19.580
And I think it's so cool for somebody to be able to look back and see, like, well, this had, you know, I had my my uh experience with art and I was able to do all of this.

00:13:19.659 --> 00:13:26.059
And then, you know, the rewiring of your brain, as you say, with the strokes, and then just all of these things happening.

00:13:26.139 --> 00:13:39.179
And I just really, it just fascinates me with people who look back and they're like, okay, that all these things happen and I feel like I'm being like pulled, led, whatever, however you want to look at it, into doing something with this.

00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:40.299
That's awesome.

00:13:40.700 --> 00:14:01.740
Yeah, and one of the one of the sides of this is that um, and other people that I've talked to that are, you know, even in my stroke recovery groups and like people that I that I've been in contact with, it's it always comes down to this one, this one core precept is that all of us have had a brush with their mortality.

00:14:02.059 --> 00:14:03.500
And not everybody has that.

00:14:03.659 --> 00:14:05.820
Not everybody's been that close.

00:14:06.220 --> 00:14:21.980
And when I was in the hospital and they said, you know, the type of stroke that you've had, which is a a clot stroke, like um, they were like, we don't expect that if you have another one, these come in clusters and you might have two or three or more, but we don't expect that you're going to survive.

00:14:22.139 --> 00:14:26.940
And I thought that that was going to be like a really epiphenal and emotional moment.

00:14:28.059 --> 00:14:28.779
It wasn't.

00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:30.620
It was it was very matter-of-fact.

00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:32.860
I was, I wasn't like torn up.

00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:39.100
I wasn't like, you know, it wasn't like in the movies or in where you have like this massive emotional breakdown.

00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:41.100
I was like, oh, okay.

00:14:41.259 --> 00:14:43.100
They're like, you need to get your affairs in order.

00:14:43.259 --> 00:14:45.659
I'm like, oh, right, yeah.

00:14:45.899 --> 00:14:50.779
I have to call my mother, I have to call my sister, I need to, I need to get my affairs in order.

00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:56.620
And, you know, in the next 48 hours, by the time they get here, I might not be here.

00:14:56.860 --> 00:15:05.899
You know, so every time I had a nap or I was falling asleep, I thought every time that that was going to be it, that I wasn't going to wake up.

00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:10.940
Anytime I went to the bathroom without giving too much information, I thought that was going to be it.

00:15:11.179 --> 00:15:15.259
Anytime I, you know, even if I sneezed, I thought this is gonna be it.

00:15:15.500 --> 00:15:20.059
Because it's that's just the reality, but it wasn't emotional.

00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:23.899
It was just it was a matter of fact.

00:15:24.940 --> 00:15:29.980
And that that lasted for months afterwards, even as I was recovering.

00:15:30.220 --> 00:15:34.539
There's always that fear of like, oh, this could just happen at because it happened.

00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:38.620
You know, I rem I'll remember that date the rest of my life, April 25th, 10 a.m.

00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:40.299
2023.

00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:44.299
I will remember that date because it just happened out of the blue.

00:15:44.620 --> 00:15:46.700
With no, you know, I'm a healthy guy.

00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:52.539
I had just gone out on a hike with my dog for seven miles the day before.

00:15:52.700 --> 00:15:59.580
You know, we had gone to beaches, we'd gone running, we had, I I eat healthy, and this still happened to me.

00:16:00.539 --> 00:16:10.460
So my mortality brought me my that brush with my mortality brought it very clear that all I'm leaving with are experiences.

00:16:11.259 --> 00:16:12.539
That's all I'm leaving with.

00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:20.299
I'm not leaving with anything on, I'm not leaving with the clothes on my back, I'm not leaving with the car I drive, with the art that I collect.

00:16:20.379 --> 00:16:22.139
None of that's gonna be coming with me.

00:16:22.299 --> 00:16:27.659
But what I'm leaving with is a legacy and my experiences.

00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:39.500
So that's been the common precept with most of the people that I've talked to that have had a similar experience that I have is that that brush with their mortality changes you.

00:16:39.899 --> 00:16:55.179
It it adjusts your perception and it it it adjusts how you feel about your space and how you move through space and how you move through time and what you do with it, what you have left.

00:16:56.139 --> 00:17:00.779
So that's that's that's how it affected me.

00:17:01.340 --> 00:17:01.740
Yeah.

00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:07.259
And not only did you survive, but then you know, you and I had talked before about how I'm a nurse practitioner.

00:17:07.340 --> 00:17:15.259
I've always worked in cardiology, and like I mean, obviously we're not in the same place, but I see no stroke residual, which is incredible.

00:17:15.659 --> 00:17:17.820
You don't see them, I know they're there.

00:17:18.059 --> 00:17:22.139
You know, mine are left side and some emotional stuff.

00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:35.660
So I have some of the the um um, yeah, there are some physical left side deficiencies and um some emotional um regulation things that I know are there.

00:17:35.819 --> 00:17:36.859
So I'm very lucky.

00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:39.660
Like I said, I was very, very lucky.

00:17:39.819 --> 00:17:47.339
I understood like the severity and the size of the stroke that I had could have left me incapacitated for the rest of my life.

00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:53.660
Or, you know, in some way, you know, not able to do what I'm doing now.

00:17:53.740 --> 00:17:55.500
So I'm not taking that for granted.

00:17:55.579 --> 00:18:00.619
And I don't take it for granted that I was I was spared, but I was all I am is lucky.

00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:01.420
That's it.

00:18:01.660 --> 00:18:03.740
It's not by skill or anything else.

00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:05.420
I'm just lucky.

00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:06.940
Right.

00:18:07.339 --> 00:18:18.059
I didn't have like an abrupt uh mortality moment like that, but I did have, you know, a moment with it's a domestic violence podcast.

00:18:18.140 --> 00:18:27.019
So with my abuser, there was a moment where now I look back and realize statistically, uh, I should not be here.

00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:29.500
There was a high likelihood of me being murdered.

00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:32.859
So that um it does make you look back.

00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:38.380
And like for me, it was a this happened.

00:18:38.539 --> 00:18:54.059
I don't, you know, I'm I don't, I'm not of the faith of God punishes people or God gives people these trials and tribulations, but I am of where if you have overcome something in your life, you look back and you think, what can I do with this now?

00:18:54.220 --> 00:18:56.700
You know, I I beat the statistics.

00:18:56.940 --> 00:19:01.019
And is there something else I can do with my life moving forward?

00:19:01.180 --> 00:19:01.579
Yeah.

00:19:01.819 --> 00:19:03.660
So I think what you're doing is beautiful.

00:19:03.740 --> 00:19:05.180
So I really thank you.

00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:05.980
Yeah.

00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:08.380
And I would let's talk about it.

00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:09.339
Let's see what you're doing.

00:19:09.819 --> 00:19:10.220
Let's get in.

00:19:10.460 --> 00:19:11.259
Let's get into it.

00:19:11.500 --> 00:19:12.299
Let's get into it.

00:19:12.380 --> 00:19:13.339
So go ahead.

00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:15.339
Traveling art exhibit.

00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:15.819
Yeah.

00:19:16.059 --> 00:19:17.579
And how big are we talking?

00:19:17.660 --> 00:19:18.220
It's huge.

00:19:18.460 --> 00:19:19.980
So it's going to be a large piece.

00:19:20.059 --> 00:19:22.539
It's going to take up about a thousand square feet.

00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:30.539
But I'll I'll give you a little bit of, you know, as I was growing up, because I grew up in the kind of household that I grew up in and what it was like for me.

00:19:30.619 --> 00:19:36.859
Like I, you know, I grew up in a small town of about 8,000 people at the time and uh it was a little farming community.

00:19:36.940 --> 00:19:46.539
I rode rodeo till I was about 16 and and rode horses and you know, lived on a farm and had very, very, very free access to things.

00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:51.740
But I also came out as as gay when I was like 14 in a little town.

00:19:51.819 --> 00:20:04.779
So I was I was subject to a tremendous amount of violence, um, you know, both physical and as I got older, sexual violence, and you know, having dealt with, you know, a father that was abusive as well.

00:20:04.940 --> 00:20:08.859
So it's it's it's part of my my history.

00:20:10.539 --> 00:20:19.099
And my lived experience through this is that, you know, I always gravitated to horror films because it was predictable.

00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:20.859
The horror was predictable.

00:20:21.019 --> 00:20:34.859
I always knew there was a formula, I knew what was going to happen, and it it was very opposite to what I was living with, which was chaotic and unpredictable, and I never knew what was going to happen from day to day.

00:20:34.940 --> 00:20:48.940
So I really gravitated to horror films because they just were fun and they were escapism, and it was a violence that was beyond what I was dealing with, but it was predictable because they're all the same.

00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:50.539
It's just a formula.

00:20:50.859 --> 00:21:00.619
So when I was developing this piece, one of my favorite places was at the Midway when the when the county fair was in and the haunted house.

00:21:00.859 --> 00:21:06.380
That was my that was my favorite place to be because I that was again, you know, there was a formula to it.

00:21:06.539 --> 00:21:11.259
I knew I was going in there, I was gonna get scared, and I had to walk through it myself.

00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:17.740
And so this piece is very reminiscent of that, and I take elements of what that haunted house is supposed to be.

00:21:17.980 --> 00:21:29.099
That this these eight stalls that you go in and experience, each one at a time, are are more or less a modern house of horrors that you have to walk through.

00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:33.579
It'll be in a blacked-out room, about a thousand square foot blacked-out room.

00:21:33.740 --> 00:21:40.859
There will be eight um four foot by four foot by ten-foot tall bathroom stalls.

00:21:41.500 --> 00:21:54.140
So you enter in and the door locks behind you, and then there is an experience that you experience for a period of time until the door unlocks and you and you go out, but you were meant to experience this.

00:21:54.460 --> 00:22:07.980
And the first one, and I'll I'll talk about three of the three of the stalls that we're doing, because there are eight in total, and each one, again, you know, delves into and touches on uh on a on a theme.

00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:23.259
And the first one is called the locker room stall because that's where boys are socialized and where men my age, it was an analog transfer of information where we learned it from our uncles and our fathers and our grandfathers.

00:22:23.819 --> 00:22:40.460
And we learned it from our coaches and our teammates how to exact dominance over each other, where we learned the jokes, where we learned the words, where we learned how to treat each other, and where we learned how to talk about girls.

00:22:40.700 --> 00:22:43.099
Not so much me, but everybody else.

00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:48.380
But that was where that transfer of knowledge happened, was in the locker room.

00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:56.700
And that that first stall is that acknowledgement to say, this is how this starts.

00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:21.099
And now we're dealing with the transfer of information from men to boys from strangers, from men online that have a microphone and a platform and a pulpit, and they espouse these violent, very far-right theories to impressionable young men and boys who don't even know who they are yet.

00:23:21.500 --> 00:23:41.500
And it's being done at a scale that I think is, I think it's very hard for people to comprehend the actual scale of how these boys are being socialized now by men online, these mediocre white men with a microphone, telling boys what is masculine, how to perform their masculinity differently.

00:23:41.579 --> 00:23:45.819
And masculinity is a performative act, and you get to choose.

00:23:46.059 --> 00:24:01.819
And so I want this first stall to kind of show the transmutation of analog socialization to the digital and how it's still, it's even more dangerous because it's still behind closed doors, it's still being hidden.

00:24:02.059 --> 00:24:04.380
And these boys are being taught how to hate.

00:24:04.539 --> 00:24:07.660
Not only how to hate, but who to hate.

00:24:08.299 --> 00:24:13.019
And they're being given tools to hate.

00:24:13.339 --> 00:24:18.140
And this is that first stall is to go, this is how this is evolving.

00:24:19.660 --> 00:24:25.740
The fourth stall in the series is about consent.

00:24:26.140 --> 00:24:36.059
And so one of the um one of the things that that this was based on is that there's a lot of white papers by a lot of very smart people that are smarter than me.

00:24:36.220 --> 00:24:45.420
Um, that I have taken their information and read through and went, how do I make a physical representation of this research or a PhD paper?

00:24:45.500 --> 00:24:48.220
How do I make a physical representation of this?

00:24:48.460 --> 00:24:55.420
And so one of the one of the pieces, there, the the fourth stall in this series is the consent stall.

00:24:55.660 --> 00:25:00.859
And it's based off of an organization, it's based off of a story called 71 Notes.

00:25:02.059 --> 00:25:17.500
There was, it's a, it's a case that happened here in Canada where a either it was a city counselor or mayor's assistant was on a trip with him overseas on a on a on a trade junket or something.

00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:26.700
And this woman had to endure and had to say to this man 71 times no to his advances.

00:25:27.819 --> 00:25:34.460
71 times had to say no to this man who just kept on and kept on.

00:25:34.700 --> 00:25:38.539
And so this stall is a physical representation of that.

00:25:38.619 --> 00:25:58.299
That once the man, once a, once the participant enters in, there's a number of different stimuli that will happen that will be very uncomfortable stimuli within this space that forces you to say no, repeatedly say no, until you find and you realize you can't get out of here if you just keep pressing no.

00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:05.420
And then when you finally do have, you finally do press yes, is that really true consent?

00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:14.700
So if you've pressed that button 71 times to with no result, and you finally press yes, is that true consent?

00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:22.859
I want to express to boys and young men what consent actually looks and feels like in a physical space and in time.

00:26:23.019 --> 00:26:33.019
That if you're in this room, you are surrounded by all this visual and audio and physical stimuli that's very uncomfortable, but you keep on having to say no.

00:26:34.460 --> 00:26:37.339
What does it mean when she finally says yes?

00:26:38.059 --> 00:26:38.940
Is that real?

00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:41.180
I love I I love that one.

00:26:41.420 --> 00:26:41.660
Thank you.

00:26:41.980 --> 00:26:44.140
That one is so, so powerful.

00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:47.980
Can somebody say yes at like number 10 and get out?

00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:49.500
Or is it go all the way okay?

00:26:49.900 --> 00:26:55.660
So it just whatever your it's where you can handle break down to go fine.

00:26:55.900 --> 00:26:56.299
Yes.

00:26:56.539 --> 00:26:57.740
Oh my goodness.

00:26:57.980 --> 00:27:00.460
That one is so powerful.

00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:01.339
It really is.

00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:02.859
I have I have chills.

00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:11.339
And then the very last one, the eighth, the eighth stall in the series, is called the 21-second stall.

00:27:11.900 --> 00:27:17.259
And the 21-second stall is one where you enter and the door locks.

00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:19.500
It's all everything locks automatically.

00:27:19.579 --> 00:27:21.180
And this is an individual experience.

00:27:21.339 --> 00:27:30.460
It's you know very much a you know, like you know, my rote riding rodeo, walking through the walking through the house of horrors, swimming, any of the kind of sports that are individual.

00:27:30.539 --> 00:27:33.819
This is an individual's experience, not to be experienced.

00:27:34.059 --> 00:27:35.980
As a group, you can go through it.

00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:39.019
But as an individual, you go in, you get locked in.

00:27:39.259 --> 00:27:45.819
Um, there are there are there is consent, express consent that you can leave when you want to, however.

00:27:45.900 --> 00:27:49.259
Um, but the very last one is the 21-second stall.

00:27:49.420 --> 00:27:59.500
And it's meant to express and to show how much violence and how much damage can happen within 21 seconds.

00:27:59.740 --> 00:28:19.099
The last 21 seconds of a 911 call, the last 21 seconds of a man trying to beat down the door to gain access to her inside or the children inside, the last 21 seconds before the police arrive or the ambulance arrives, the last 21 seconds of a woman's life.

00:28:21.099 --> 00:28:30.779
And the 21 seconds is done very specifically because that's how long it takes, how long average it takes a human being to go pee.

00:28:32.539 --> 00:28:36.779
21 seconds is the average for us to evacuate our bladder.

00:28:37.339 --> 00:28:48.380
And so I want to show that the amount of time that it takes you just to urinate, how much can happen in 21 seconds, and what that sounds like and what that feels like, and what that looks like.

00:28:48.700 --> 00:28:57.500
And being in that for 21 seconds, it seems like a very short period of time, but this is meant to be confrontational.

00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:03.579
It is not meant to molecoddle boys or men because they've been socialized into this already.

00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:07.259
They're already hardened, they've already been hardened.

00:29:07.579 --> 00:29:16.859
But this is meant to be confrontational, it's meant to be visceral, and it's meant to have them come to a reckoning to go, oh, this, we created this.

00:29:17.819 --> 00:29:27.660
You know, we can go further further into this about you know the creation and the the architecture, the ancient architecture of a patriarchy.

00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:31.740
But this socialization that we're living in now is our creation.

00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:50.460
And this is where this is where we can start seeing that architecture, that ancient system of that that program that has been in us for a few millennia, that it is being adjusted, that that programming is being shifted, and we need to catch this.

00:29:50.859 --> 00:29:57.099
And so that's why I wanted to create this, because I I don't want that to be what's left behind.

00:29:57.500 --> 00:30:03.019
If I were to drop dead tomorrow, this isn't, I don't want this world left behind.

00:30:03.500 --> 00:30:09.339
I want it to be better, and I want to do what I can to make it better, to offer something.

00:30:09.740 --> 00:30:11.740
And so this was my creation.

00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:25.420
Which I think is incredible, especially to have a man create this, because there's there are so few men who recognize this and are willing to say something about it.

00:30:26.299 --> 00:30:27.740
And yeah, go ahead.

00:30:28.220 --> 00:30:28.380
Go ahead.

00:30:29.980 --> 00:30:32.619
Uh no, I actually don't know where I was going with that.

00:30:33.339 --> 00:30:41.339
There are, there are plenty of, and I and there are not a lot that are there are a lot that are doing a lot of very good work.

00:30:41.500 --> 00:30:55.660
There is like the International White Ribbon Campaign, there's guys work, there's there's plenty of organizations all across North America that are run by men that are men's organizations that are doing the good work.

00:30:56.059 --> 00:30:58.380
They are all doing incredible work.

00:30:58.779 --> 00:31:01.980
But this is taking a decidedly different approach.

00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:21.420
This isn't, and I use the word molycoddling very specifically, and I know I should maybe not be using that term, but I wanted something that used the same level of socialization to prove and to show boys and young men how they've been socialized.

00:31:21.660 --> 00:31:27.900
Because not all young men and boys are going to respond to trauma-informed therapy talk.

00:31:28.779 --> 00:31:42.460
They need something physical, they need something visceral, they need something tactile, they need something that's put in front of them that is just as aggressive as the things that they're learning online.

00:31:43.420 --> 00:31:50.859
And so this was coming from an artistic lens, from an artistic space to go, we can shift perception through art.

00:31:51.019 --> 00:31:58.619
We might not be able to change, there might not be legislation being brought in through art, but we can certainly create perception changes.

00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:05.339
We can create changes within somebody's body and in their bones because of what they've seen.

00:32:05.420 --> 00:32:09.740
Because we've all seen wonderful pieces of artwork that were like, that changed me.

00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:19.500
A film, a picture, a photograph, a sculpture that were like, that really, that really affected me.

00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:31.019
And that's what I'm trying to create with this is that we've we've done, you know, we've had women bearing the brunt of the crisis management.

00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:40.539
And now it's time for men to step up and step up, just step up and take an active role to go, we have to fix this.

00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:42.059
We created it.

00:32:43.099 --> 00:32:44.539
Women have borne the brunt of it.

00:32:44.619 --> 00:32:50.380
They've borne the crisis response, they've borne all of the all the pain and all the indignity of it.

00:32:50.619 --> 00:32:54.700
And men have to step up and go, no, this isn't happening anymore.

00:32:54.859 --> 00:33:05.660
But to do that, it that needs to be presented to them in a way that is digestible and just as aggressive as what they're learning and what they've learned.

00:33:05.900 --> 00:33:08.140
That's my my my two sense.

00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:08.779
Yeah.

00:33:09.019 --> 00:33:22.779
And, you know, I may have unintentionally minimized what men have been doing so far, but I I do absolutely recognize all of these organizations and men uh stepping up to make a difference.

00:33:23.019 --> 00:33:30.460
This is something where it gives, you know, the average man an opportunity to go in and experience and come out changed.

00:33:30.619 --> 00:33:42.140
So, like you mentioned, it's, you know, the average guy isn't necessarily going to go and sit through some dissertation on intimate partner violence and the contribution men have toward that.

00:33:42.380 --> 00:33:52.380
But this is something where you can go, you know, take in some art and come out in an actual changed person because of it, which is incredible.

00:33:52.779 --> 00:33:53.980
That's the goal.

00:33:54.220 --> 00:34:02.940
And creating it as a, and I and I'm I I hate minimizing this, but creating it as a midway sideshow.

00:34:03.660 --> 00:34:04.779
You know, it needs that.

00:34:04.940 --> 00:34:12.779
It needs that kind of it needs to feel like it's something familiar and universal.

00:34:13.019 --> 00:34:15.180
You know, the bathroom is universal.

00:34:15.980 --> 00:34:18.619
The haunted house, universal.

00:34:18.859 --> 00:34:23.340
The stuff that's inside of it, not so much, but it's universal.

00:34:24.220 --> 00:34:51.019
And so, you know, the space itself, you know, with all the cacophony of sounds coming from each one, each one of the stalls, because they're meant to be loud, you know, there's a there's a metaphorical part of this that I wanted to ensure that when there's the group of participants that are going to be going in and participating in the piece, understand that it's like, even though the door is closed, we still hear what's going on.

00:34:51.260 --> 00:34:53.739
We know what's happening behind closed doors.

00:34:53.820 --> 00:35:02.780
And so if we don't say something, even when the doors are closed and we can hear this cacophony of sound that we're still complicit.

00:35:02.940 --> 00:35:08.619
And I'll be honest, it's like that was something that I had to come to a reckoning with because there have been times that I have been.

00:35:08.780 --> 00:35:10.139
I'm not a saint.

00:35:10.460 --> 00:35:13.340
You know, I've laughed at jokes I shouldn't have.

00:35:14.619 --> 00:35:17.340
I didn't say something when I should have.

00:35:17.900 --> 00:35:23.260
With even women that I love and that have been friends of mine that I knew were in a situation and I said nothing.

00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:26.539
That complicity exists.

00:35:27.019 --> 00:35:33.900
And so I'm I'm by no means a saint in this, but I'm a participant in it.

00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:36.380
So I had to come to my own reckoning.

00:35:36.539 --> 00:35:46.780
And so I want other men to have that same reckoning to go, oh, but when you're inside of that little booth, you hear nothing other than what is inside that little booth.

00:35:46.860 --> 00:35:49.260
All the sound from outside is gone.

00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:56.619
You just are there hearing what's hearing and seeing and feeling and touching what's in that little space, that confined little space.

00:35:56.940 --> 00:36:07.659
And you know, it's really refreshing to hear you talk about jokes because I think that people minimize, you know, like jokes that are degrading to women, like, oh, well, whatever.

00:36:07.739 --> 00:36:08.940
It's, you know, it's just a joke.

00:36:09.099 --> 00:36:10.219
All the guys are laughing at it.

00:36:10.380 --> 00:36:15.820
Maybe I'm too sensitive for thinking that it's it's that big of a deal, but I do feel like it's a big deal.

00:36:15.980 --> 00:36:20.219
What do you think the role is in those kind of jokes and men's behavior?

00:36:20.780 --> 00:36:29.659
They teach men and young boys and boys to devalue 50% of our population.

00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:34.699
You know, that's the that's what the jokes do.

00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:38.860
The jokes are, you know, some are, you know, let's you know, jokes are jokes.

00:36:39.019 --> 00:37:08.380
But there's also, you know, when when you're dealing with something like this and the the language that's being used and the vernacular that's being used and in this particular zeitgeist, it is one of those situations where you have to look at like, the jokes are not just jokes, they hurt, they actually do things, like they inject language and they inject that programming into young boys' minds to go, oh, this is okay to talk to somebody like this.

00:37:08.539 --> 00:37:11.739
This is okay to use these words, these derogatory words.

00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:13.340
And words are just words.

00:37:13.579 --> 00:37:29.820
However, when it's attached to an entire system of oppression, and when it's attached to an entire system that is meant to subjugate one part of the population, that's the damage that it does.

00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:30.780
It does.

00:37:30.940 --> 00:37:37.340
It, you know, hearing a joke about objectifying a woman, we hear that.

00:37:37.579 --> 00:37:42.940
We can walk away and think, I'm just reduced to a piece of ass, more or less.

00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:47.659
And then it's, well, how do I rate on that piece of assness?

00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:54.780
Like, okay, they made this joke about somebody, like, oh, you're a five or whatever, and then they're joking about somebody else.

00:37:54.860 --> 00:38:05.340
And then you go home and you just internalize all of that and think, okay, all I am is just this object, but I'm not even the most desired object.

00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:08.940
And you just begin to devalue yourself.

00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:14.059
And I think it also desensitizes guys to other things.

00:38:14.139 --> 00:38:20.860
Like, I don't know, hanging out with the guys and somebody's going to complain about their wife, like, oh my God, she's so annoying.

00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:22.460
She's going off on this tangent.

00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:26.460
Like, I need to smack her up a little bit and just kind of minimize that.

00:38:26.539 --> 00:38:28.059
And that's not such a big deal, right?

00:38:28.300 --> 00:38:31.900
And that's the kind of stuff that that that is really insidious.

00:38:32.059 --> 00:38:40.380
And that's the stuff where, you know, there might be somebody in the room, you know, like somebody like me who was like, oh, maybe I like you said, maybe I'm too sensitive.

00:38:40.539 --> 00:38:43.739
But it takes someone like me to go, no, that's not all right, man.

00:38:43.820 --> 00:38:45.420
Like that's that's not cool.

00:38:45.579 --> 00:38:46.940
That's not cool.

00:38:47.340 --> 00:39:18.460
And that sort of thing starts very young because we see it and we hear it and we see that it's okay, that we see the jokes that you know our uncle might tell us, or you know, that our coach might say, like, stop acting, stop running like girls, stop, you know, you stop your crying, stop like it's this it's this pervasive language that is just part of the socialization that is the issue.

00:39:19.179 --> 00:39:26.539
And you know, women are women are socialized, girls are socialized in response to the way that boys are socialized.

00:39:26.780 --> 00:39:27.739
You're absolutely right.

00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:39.019
Okay, so just for the technical parts of this piece, so you can go into the 1,000 square foot space as a group, but you go into each stall as an individual?

00:39:39.340 --> 00:39:39.739
Yes.

00:39:40.059 --> 00:39:40.380
Okay.

00:39:40.780 --> 00:39:43.739
And when you're in this big space, you can hear what's happening.

00:39:44.059 --> 00:39:44.460
Yeah.

00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:45.019
Okay.

00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:46.139
When you're inside.

00:39:46.219 --> 00:39:58.780
So the technology that exists now is that we can create this din, like this, you know, like living in New York is uh one of the best experiences that you can create this, you hear everything outside.

00:39:58.940 --> 00:40:02.780
Um, but when you're inside your apartment, if you've got good windows, everything gets shut out.

00:40:02.940 --> 00:40:04.619
You only hear what's in your space.

00:40:04.860 --> 00:40:08.699
But this is meant to be, this is meant to change people one at a time.

00:40:09.500 --> 00:40:17.820
I've got eight options, got eight tries with this to be able to change one person's mind, but it has to be done individually.

00:40:17.980 --> 00:40:26.699
I couldn't have a group go through and have a group experience because the way that this is being, the way that it was for me was that it was an individual experience.

00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:27.900
It was mine.

00:40:28.219 --> 00:40:29.500
It was yours.

00:40:29.739 --> 00:40:33.980
It wasn't a group experience because we've all experienced it very differently.

00:40:34.139 --> 00:40:43.659
There are commonalities, but it's meant to be in it's meant to be experienced by an individual for a short period of time eight times.

00:40:44.940 --> 00:40:51.099
And so this entire room is blacked out, and it's just these eight stalls with a light over top of them.

00:40:51.260 --> 00:40:54.780
Um, the sound you can hear all around, like you would at a midway.

00:40:54.940 --> 00:41:07.659
But when you're in the space, we have technology that directs sound and we can isolate this out so that the decibels are almost minimal down to about 30 decibels, and you only hear what's in that little room.

00:41:07.900 --> 00:41:09.019
Nothing else.

00:41:09.260 --> 00:41:10.699
You hear nothing.

00:41:11.739 --> 00:41:15.260
You might even just you might even hear your own heart beat in one of them.

00:41:15.500 --> 00:41:23.500
It is so it will be so insulated that we're trying to get things down below, you know, 30 decibels inside the space.

00:41:23.900 --> 00:41:30.059
So that it's like, oh, you can hear, you can hear your heart, but you might even hear the blood rushing through your ears.

00:41:30.539 --> 00:41:35.659
So it's that to to remove that perception of time and to understand it's like this is your space.

00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:41.019
This is where you, this is where you have to sit in the shit and experience it.

00:41:41.340 --> 00:41:47.099
And I I love the immersive idea because I was, you know, I talk about this all the time.

00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:55.420
As a victim, you try to explain because unfortunately, victims are forced to explain of, you know, why did you stay?

00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:56.219
Why didn't you leave?

00:41:56.300 --> 00:41:57.579
Why did whatever?

00:41:57.900 --> 00:42:04.940
But sticking somebody, an individual into this immersive experience, you're feeling it.

00:42:05.099 --> 00:42:14.059
And it's so hard for me to talk and say, well, this is how I felt, and then to make you actually experience it.

00:42:14.219 --> 00:42:15.099
It's it's difficult.

00:42:15.420 --> 00:42:16.300
Some people can't do it.

00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:22.380
You can tell a story and you can pull individuals right in there with you to feel these emotions.

00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:33.579
But this is, you're physically putting somebody right there to intentionally get your heart to race, your palm sweaty, all of those physical reactions.

00:42:33.820 --> 00:42:39.820
I think that is, oh my gosh, I can't tell you how powerful I think this is and amazing.

00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:41.340
I'm so thrilled you're doing this.

00:42:41.820 --> 00:42:42.699
Thank you, Ingrid.

00:42:42.860 --> 00:42:46.059
I'm really um, I'm really excited about it.

00:42:46.300 --> 00:42:54.940
And um I'm so remarkably grateful that I've had the support that I've had.

00:42:55.099 --> 00:42:59.340
Like the support that I'm getting is just off the charts.

00:42:59.659 --> 00:43:14.300
Um, I'm off to our nation's capital on November 17th for a week, and I'm meeting with about a dozen dozen senators and politicians to talk about the economic ramifications of gender-based violence.

00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:20.219
It was actually a comment that you brought up that stimulated I'm like, I need to include this in this thing.

00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:30.780
This is this is a massive problem when 50% of the population and 30% of that 30-50 can't contribute to the economy the same way.

00:43:30.860 --> 00:43:36.699
And when you released, when you told me that number of, you know, like 8 billion or 80 billion.

00:43:37.260 --> 00:43:40.780
Over over over eight uh eight billion dollars a year.

00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:43.900
See, that was like in the US, just in the United States.

00:43:44.380 --> 00:44:11.980
That when we're we keep talking about nation building and we talk about building infrastructure, and we talk about this, that we're removing and we're we're forgetting about 50% of the population, and out of that 30% that just can't contribute is unable to contribute the same way because you know, gender-based violence doesn't just mean physical violence, it means economic capabilities, economic violence, financial violence.

00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:14.380
It's all encompassing.

00:44:14.619 --> 00:44:23.260
So when our governments are looking at doing funding for these and states are looking at doing funding for these, for this type of, this type of these types of initiatives.

00:44:24.059 --> 00:44:33.659
We have to remember that arts and culture have to be a part of it and that women have to be thought of because that's 50% of our population.

00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:39.659
And if they're not contributing it 100%, we're doing ourselves all a disservice.

00:44:39.820 --> 00:44:49.019
Not to say that the economy is the be all and end all, but we have to be able to give, we have to be able to have those opportunities to be equalized and to be fair.

00:44:49.099 --> 00:44:58.059
And we need to, we need to, we need to make that portion that if you're going to be doing nation building, you have to make sure that you include the entire nation.

00:44:58.300 --> 00:44:58.460
Yeah.

00:44:58.780 --> 00:45:09.579
And the economy is, it is important to bring up because you can have somebody that says, well, you know, I've never known anyone to be affected by domestic violence, which is actually untrue.

00:45:09.659 --> 00:45:10.539
Everybody knows somebody.

00:45:10.860 --> 00:45:11.099
Yeah.

00:45:11.260 --> 00:45:12.139
Everyone knows somebody.

00:45:12.219 --> 00:45:14.139
You just may not be aware.

00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:24.460
But even if you want to distance yourself from it and say it has not directly impacted myself or anybody within my circle, it has affected the economy.

00:45:24.619 --> 00:45:32.380
So you are affected by it because every single person in the world is affected by their economy.

00:45:32.619 --> 00:45:35.340
And this does play a humongous role in it.

00:45:35.659 --> 00:45:45.019
And regardless of, you know, this, you know, both in like intimate partner violence is not a white western concept.

00:45:45.179 --> 00:46:00.380
This is this was you know, it was brought here, you know, it you know, it was colonialized, as was the as was the version of patriarchy that we have here that was a colonial export that was imposed on the indigenous population here.

00:46:00.780 --> 00:46:07.340
The the reality is that these, you know, our politicians have to be far more involved.

00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:13.900
They need to be looking at this far more seriously rather than as a fringe issue or a politicized issue.

00:46:14.139 --> 00:46:15.900
It's a human issue.

00:46:16.139 --> 00:46:17.179
It's human.

00:46:17.420 --> 00:46:26.539
But even with, you know, when I'm when I was reaching out to these senators and these politicians, I was I was looking at it, going, oh, this is like really interesting data.

00:46:26.860 --> 00:46:28.699
And so I'm a bit of a data geek, too.

00:46:28.780 --> 00:46:31.260
So I'm just gonna digress for a moment.

00:46:31.500 --> 00:46:36.860
But so there's, you know, there was in my country here in Canada, there's a hundred senators.

00:46:37.179 --> 00:46:43.260
There are what we call our ministers of parliament, and there's um uh 343.

00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:56.059
And then there's about a thousand MLAs, which are the members of the legislative assembly, which are like they are they're they're they're the uh the the state's representatives and from regions around there.

00:46:56.619 --> 00:47:06.059
And I was like, this is really interesting data because now I get to collect the data about how people respond, what they respond with, and if they respond.

00:47:06.780 --> 00:47:15.260
And so out of that, so I did a little a little segment that it was first off of the Senate, off of all the senators in Canada.

00:47:15.340 --> 00:47:18.219
I sent them an email and I had four responses.

00:47:18.460 --> 00:47:20.059
And I was devastated.

00:47:20.219 --> 00:47:21.659
I was like, this is not good.

00:47:21.820 --> 00:47:26.940
This is four percent of our Canadian senators that are responding to this.

00:47:27.099 --> 00:47:28.380
This is an important issue.

00:47:28.460 --> 00:47:30.139
Why aren't they responding?

00:47:30.380 --> 00:47:42.619
And so I did a little bit of research and was like, well, ethically, I shouldn't be telling them that I'm collecting data because I don't want to stimulate a response, but I really do need to stimulate a response.

00:47:42.860 --> 00:48:00.539
So I sent another email saying that, oh, by the way, we're actually collecting qualitative and qualit, qu qualitative and quantitative data and longitudinal data across the country to see how you all respond, or if you do, or if you don't respond, and what you respond with overnight.

00:48:00.860 --> 00:48:03.500
Jump from 4% to about 18%.

00:48:04.059 --> 00:48:07.579
Still low, but better than four.

00:48:08.300 --> 00:48:19.659
So that's the that was kind of like as though I'm using that same thing, you know, with all the politicians going like, hey, by the way, how you respond is gonna be part of our public facing document.

00:48:19.980 --> 00:48:24.619
Not that I'm gonna shame anybody, but I'm just gonna be like, hey, by the way, these are politicians.

00:48:24.699 --> 00:48:28.940
I would never do this in in corporate, in the corporate world.

00:48:29.099 --> 00:48:37.579
But in this side on the on on the on the political, on the parliamentarian, and the senatorial side, absolutely I'm telling them that this data's collected.

00:48:37.820 --> 00:48:41.260
I I need to force a response.

00:48:41.420 --> 00:48:43.179
So it needed some stimulus.

00:48:43.420 --> 00:48:46.619
And the stimulus was like, hey, by the way, we are collecting this data.

00:48:46.860 --> 00:48:48.219
And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

00:48:48.380 --> 00:48:49.739
I mean, these are elected officials.

00:48:49.820 --> 00:48:52.300
Like they you the people should know.

00:48:52.619 --> 00:48:53.340
They should know.

00:48:53.420 --> 00:48:54.860
And I thank you for that.

00:48:55.179 --> 00:48:55.659
For sure.

00:48:55.980 --> 00:49:01.659
But it was your comment that stimulated that after our first after our after our first conversation.

00:49:01.820 --> 00:49:06.380
That's because it's really, it's it's really incredible information.

00:49:06.699 --> 00:49:21.980
Something else that I like about this is this is not a reactionary type of piece that you're doing that, okay, the we're only going to send the domestic violence offenders or the intimate partner violence offenders into this immersive experience.

00:49:22.139 --> 00:49:23.579
This is anybody.

00:49:23.739 --> 00:49:30.460
And this could actually prevent something from happening or cause somebody to.

00:49:30.619 --> 00:49:43.900
I mean, I don't know that it will reform somebody who already has that abusive uh, you know, self in their body, but it may have somebody speak up like this guy's behavior is not okay.

00:49:44.059 --> 00:49:50.380
This friend of mine, I need to stop tolerating these comments and these jokes and everything.

00:49:50.619 --> 00:49:55.900
And that plays a huge role because family law is overwhelmed.

00:49:56.059 --> 00:50:00.619
It is not uh not helpful to victims.

00:50:00.860 --> 00:50:03.340
Um, and this is mostly worldwide.

00:50:03.420 --> 00:50:05.579
I've talked to quite a few people across the world.

00:50:05.739 --> 00:50:08.139
Um it's not designed to help victims.

00:50:08.300 --> 00:50:13.099
So this is something that could actually help our legal systems.

00:50:13.900 --> 00:50:17.739
So the that is that is like one of the things that we are.

00:50:17.900 --> 00:50:27.340
We we are we shun and we reject um the connotation or the notion that we're an awareness campaign and that this project is an awareness campaign.

00:50:27.579 --> 00:50:31.500
And if you don't know that this is happening, you're living under a fucking walk.

00:50:31.659 --> 00:50:34.460
You know, there is no, there we are all aware.

00:50:34.619 --> 00:50:35.579
Everybody's aware.

00:50:35.739 --> 00:50:36.619
Everybody is aware.

00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:42.619
There is nowhere, there are no more awareness campaigns that can go out that will make us any more aware.

00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:45.820
So this is a prevention piece.

00:50:45.980 --> 00:50:51.900
This was meant and is the intention and the heart of this is a prevention piece.

00:50:52.619 --> 00:51:19.579
And much like what you what you just stated in in the US, in Canada, we have gray areas where the law, and it also exists in the United States, there are gray areas where the law just doesn't cover, where it's the pre-legal space, where there are there's lack of legal education for our trusted intermediaries that don't know what to do when it's something that's not exactly illegal, like coercive control.

00:51:20.619 --> 00:51:22.539
That's one of the gray areas.

00:51:22.699 --> 00:51:50.780
So, how do you provide that level of education to these trusted intermediaries that are social workers, a school resource counselor, a police officer, a receptionist at a doctor's office, to recognize these things and to go, this is the legal framework and this is the education that we now have to go, oh, this is a gray area where we can catch it before it becomes a legal issue.

00:51:50.940 --> 00:52:04.699
So if we can catch the coercive control, the financial control, all these things that fit within that gray area, that's where we have more prevention, where you catch it earlier and earlier on.

00:52:04.780 --> 00:52:18.860
This is not crisis management, which, you know, through all through North America, that is a that for me, it's like that requires funding consistently, and that's a non-starter if they say, well, we need to cut that back, because that is not that is not the direction.

00:52:19.019 --> 00:52:21.659
Crisis funding is always going is going to be needed.

00:52:21.820 --> 00:52:34.059
And I don't want to say always going to be needed because it would be there's, you know, we have even in our bylaws with my nonprofit organization, we have um a portion of redundancy, is that that's what we're striving towards.

00:52:34.300 --> 00:52:39.099
Like we don't want to be needed in the future.

00:52:39.579 --> 00:52:57.579
But so we're working with uh law foundations across the country, starting with the Law Foundation of Ontario, to develop a legal framework and to develop uh a legal education module and to develop legal education modules that focus on the gray area.

00:52:57.900 --> 00:53:09.579
As part of this piece, as part of the prevention piece, to go, we're not just working on the artwork, we're also trying to create some education so that this prevention can start outside of the art piece.

00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:21.260
And so when people see it, they know how to respond to it and they have the proper education to go, oh, I know what to do here before it becomes a legal issue, because sometimes that's all it takes.

00:53:22.139 --> 00:53:22.460
Right.

00:53:22.619 --> 00:53:29.900
And it's it's going to spark conversation, which is that's you know, that's step one is just getting people to talk about it more.

00:53:30.059 --> 00:53:45.659
And the more you talk about it, say like a group of men go to do this experience and they don't have any women with them, but they go home to whatever women in their lives, sisters, moms, spouses, partners, whatever, and they say, Hey, I just went through this thing.

00:53:45.820 --> 00:53:49.420
And have you ever felt like you were coerced?

00:53:49.579 --> 00:53:52.619
You know, did you have to say no 71 times?

00:53:52.940 --> 00:54:03.820
And just that conversation is going to open up so many, so many minds and spark hopefully a lot more ideas of like, you know what?

00:54:04.460 --> 00:54:06.619
Maybe I could do something too.

00:54:07.099 --> 00:54:11.420
And I mean, there's just there's creative geniuses on so many different levels.

00:54:11.500 --> 00:54:12.860
And I love the creative minds.

00:54:12.940 --> 00:54:14.300
I feel like I don't have that.

00:54:14.539 --> 00:54:17.579
So I'm so I hate it.

00:54:18.539 --> 00:54:21.260
I'm very linear thinking, very black and white.

00:54:21.420 --> 00:54:28.780
So creative minds, I just, I would love to, I just could sit in a room and just listen to all of you guys all the time.

00:54:29.099 --> 00:54:30.780
It it's so interesting to me.

00:54:31.179 --> 00:54:39.260
The the really interesting part of this is that most of the men that I have talked to from, you know, from like I have friends all over the world.

00:54:39.420 --> 00:54:41.659
We have a common, there's a common theme.

00:54:41.820 --> 00:54:44.300
We're like, oh yeah, it was the bathroom.

00:54:44.619 --> 00:54:45.500
It was the bathroom.

00:54:45.579 --> 00:54:46.460
We all say the same thing.

00:54:46.539 --> 00:54:50.539
It's like, yeah, no, that's where, like, oh yeah, no, that's where I was, that's where this happened.

00:54:50.619 --> 00:54:51.500
That's the common thing.

00:54:51.659 --> 00:54:53.179
Like all men, we've all had it.

00:54:53.260 --> 00:54:55.260
We're like, oh yeah, that was in the locker room.

00:54:55.500 --> 00:54:56.380
That's really interesting.

00:54:56.539 --> 00:55:03.900
Well, and you know, in women, for women, you go to say you go to your gynecologist's office in the bathroom.

00:55:04.059 --> 00:55:07.179
You have the flyers of, you know, what is your home life like?

00:55:07.340 --> 00:55:13.340
If you feel like you might be being, you might be abused, here's a number, and you can well, I they probably don't do that now.

00:55:13.500 --> 00:55:17.019
It's probably a QR code, but I'm I'm of the same same generation as you.

00:55:17.099 --> 00:55:22.619
So you remember those papers you'd have like the little phone numbers cut and you could rip off one of the numbers to call.

00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:29.980
But those are in, you know, restrooms for they're in the bars, they're in doctors' offices, all over the place.

00:55:30.139 --> 00:55:38.940
So it's the same kind of you might be going in there to speak seek refuge, but then you could also see this piece of hope that might be there for you, too.

00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:44.139
Any all of this, all of these things are all helpful.

00:55:44.619 --> 00:55:47.340
Every little bit of information that goes out is helpful.

00:55:47.420 --> 00:55:56.139
You know, every crisis manager that I know, every, every, every transition house operator and employee that I've met.

00:55:56.539 --> 00:56:02.460
Um it's all it's all about this slow erosion.

00:56:02.780 --> 00:56:06.219
Because it's not like something that can be, you know, dismantled.

00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:10.940
It has to be eroded through a through, and I'm gonna only use this word once.

00:56:11.179 --> 00:56:14.780
It can only be eroded through awareness.

00:56:14.860 --> 00:56:26.860
Like if one person becomes aware and they become, they become, it becomes visible, they see it with both eyes, and they're like, oh, that's a little bit more of that erosion every time.

00:56:27.019 --> 00:56:30.619
It just and then we have a choice to participate or not.

00:56:30.860 --> 00:56:37.820
And then when you choose to participate in something that is so destructive, that's not good, but you can choose not to participate.

00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:46.780
This was my my portion of I choose to not participate, but I'm going to create this.

00:56:47.179 --> 00:56:48.699
I don't participate in this.

00:56:48.860 --> 00:56:52.699
I'm not participating in the way that men are, the way that men are doing this.

00:56:52.860 --> 00:57:03.179
And you know, as a you know, as a as a as a gay guy growing up, even in my early 20s, you know, was never invited to the same table that straight guys were at.

00:57:03.659 --> 00:57:05.019
You know, women were the same thing.

00:57:05.179 --> 00:57:11.980
Women and I think this is why I think women and gay men have always been such fierce allies, is because we've always had to fight for the same goddamn thing.

00:57:12.139 --> 00:57:13.500
We want space at the table.

00:57:13.579 --> 00:57:14.940
So what did we do?

00:57:15.500 --> 00:57:17.260
We created our own tables.

00:57:17.420 --> 00:57:19.980
We had to be better than everybody else.

00:57:20.619 --> 00:57:22.619
Just to be taken half as seriously.

00:57:22.699 --> 00:57:26.780
We had to be twice as good to be taken half as to be taken half as seriously.

00:57:26.940 --> 00:57:29.500
And so we were always after the same thing.

00:57:29.579 --> 00:57:37.260
Like I that's my that's my my own, you know, because I have some incredibly strong women that have been my friends for 30 years.

00:57:37.500 --> 00:57:42.539
And I look at it, I'm like, these are the these are the women that we all grew up together.

00:57:42.699 --> 00:57:46.860
We all had uh, you know, we fought for different things, but we were fighting for the same thing.

00:57:47.179 --> 00:57:51.019
We were part of a system that was fearful.

00:57:52.300 --> 00:57:56.539
And you know, it wasn't a crisis of masculinity.

00:57:56.619 --> 00:58:03.579
And this was a comment that was brought up recently that I was like, I don't think it's a crisis of masculinity.

00:58:03.739 --> 00:58:05.659
I think it's a crisis of femininity.

00:58:05.820 --> 00:58:06.940
There's such a fear.

00:58:07.260 --> 00:58:07.900
You're right.

00:58:09.019 --> 00:58:09.980
You're absolutely right.

00:58:11.099 --> 00:58:23.659
I also I love the word erosion because that's exactly what it is, you know, erosion is something that happens over time, and it happens because of consistent exposure to something.

00:58:23.900 --> 00:58:26.059
Erosion is a really wonderful word for it.

00:58:26.139 --> 00:58:44.940
And there are so many different pieces that are involved if you're especially if you're speaking specifically about domestic violence or intimate partner violence, is there are so many pieces that are out there and that people are focusing on to, I'm gonna take this piece to help others.

00:58:45.099 --> 00:58:53.179
I spoke with um a woman, maybe it was about a year ago in California who has started a nonprofit for transportation.

00:58:53.340 --> 00:59:07.900
And it sounds like such a minuscule thing, but when you have a victim who's stuck in a home who knows where they can go, I can go to my friend's house, my mom's house, my aunt's house, but they live on the other side of the county or in another state.

00:59:08.139 --> 00:59:11.420
This is a piece will we will help you get there.

00:59:11.739 --> 00:59:18.300
And there are just so many pieces that erosion is so spot on for the word.

00:59:19.019 --> 00:59:34.059
It's in the the basis of the work that I'm and like my entire body of work that you know there are other I know there are other pieces that we're working on that are, you know, we're a multidisciplinary nonprofit arts organization.

00:59:34.539 --> 00:59:49.099
And so we do what we have theater, uh, sculpture, um, other immersive works, but they're all meant to focus on societal issues and how how to how to further the entropy.

00:59:49.659 --> 00:59:57.340
And entropy is a real big thing for me because I I always look at things as is the the you know, since I was sick, is that nothing is permanent.

00:59:58.380 --> 01:00:08.059
So even the society that we live in suffers from entropy, and there are things that we can do to kind of hurry that along, that that entropy.

01:00:08.139 --> 01:00:10.139
You know, nothing will last forever.

01:00:10.619 --> 01:00:13.579
You know, illness doesn't always last forever.

01:00:13.659 --> 01:00:17.500
There's always going to be a final, a final day that you're not sick anymore.

01:00:17.820 --> 01:00:22.699
I don't need to be in you know morbid about it, but there will be a day that you just aren't sick anymore.

01:00:22.780 --> 01:00:24.139
So nothing lasts forever.

01:00:24.300 --> 01:00:24.860
Nothing.

01:00:25.099 --> 01:00:29.739
There is nothing that is on that is in front of us that will last forever.

01:00:30.059 --> 01:00:37.980
And so I look at this very optimistically in that I don't think this will last forever.

01:00:38.300 --> 01:00:44.380
I think that with enough time and enough people scratching at it that you can erode any system.

01:00:45.179 --> 01:00:46.780
But you just have to make people aware of it.

01:00:46.940 --> 01:00:55.420
But it takes time, but it is something that becomes a much larger effort to be like, I don't want to participate in this anymore.

01:00:55.579 --> 01:00:57.739
We need to, we need to scratch this away.

01:00:57.900 --> 01:01:01.340
We need to we need to erode this.

01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:06.059
This needs to, we need to, we need to hurry the entropy on this a little bit more.

01:01:06.380 --> 01:01:07.340
How do we do this?

01:01:07.500 --> 01:01:13.739
And collectively, we have such power to to to to do that kind of thing.

01:01:13.900 --> 01:01:19.579
So, you know, much like a drip of water on a rock, we can do like I look at it very optimistically.

01:01:19.659 --> 01:01:33.500
And there was a point in time that when I when I was kind of creating the rupture and looking, looking in and seeing this grand canyon of an issue in front of me, I was like, oh, I don't think I can fix anything.

01:01:34.380 --> 01:01:44.300
And I kind of had to come to that, come to terms with I may not be fixing it, but I'm making the rupture larger.

01:01:46.139 --> 01:01:47.900
I'm making the rupture larger.

01:01:48.139 --> 01:01:54.380
That was the goal, is to create a much larger rupture to show it's like this is really cavernous.

01:01:54.619 --> 01:01:57.420
You gotta like, come on, you gotta take a look at this.

01:01:57.659 --> 01:02:02.059
Because we see it for you know what it is, and it just seems so very surface level.

01:02:02.219 --> 01:02:08.300
But when you get to it and you rip it open, you're like, oh, jeepers, that's that's the Grand Canyon down there.

01:02:08.460 --> 01:02:09.739
This is that big of an issue.

01:02:10.059 --> 01:02:11.179
Yeah, it is.

01:02:11.659 --> 01:02:23.019
And you are going to leave your experience, and they they can be, they can just be non-participants, even if they just become a non-participant in this misogynistic behavior.

01:02:23.340 --> 01:02:25.500
That's that's a huge change.

01:02:25.659 --> 01:02:26.619
And who knows?

01:02:26.780 --> 01:02:32.460
There might be, like I said before, somebody who decides to go ahead and create some change based on it.

01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:33.579
Really incredible.

01:02:33.820 --> 01:02:39.019
Well, and that's that's like, you know, like I said earlier, it's like it can come from a movie, it can come from a play.

01:02:39.179 --> 01:02:48.780
Like there have been, you know, I I take a look back at my own history of, you know, films that I saw that adjusted my my trajectory.

01:02:49.179 --> 01:02:50.619
You know, there's always something.

01:02:50.780 --> 01:03:00.860
There's a painting that we've seen that affected us, or you know, a book that we read that changed our perception of the world that we live in or who we are as a as a person.

01:03:01.579 --> 01:03:12.460
And I have I have the utmost hope and optimism that art can have have that, has that effect on everybody.

01:03:12.619 --> 01:03:16.380
They may not know it right away, but eventually.

01:03:17.980 --> 01:03:18.139
Right.

01:03:18.219 --> 01:03:20.059
I oh yeah, yeah, okay, now I get it.

01:03:20.300 --> 01:03:22.300
Some people just take time to process.

01:03:22.780 --> 01:03:23.179
Right.

01:03:24.300 --> 01:03:24.940
And that's fine.

01:03:25.179 --> 01:03:26.300
That's fine.

01:03:27.099 --> 01:03:32.059
Okay, so how can um, I guess, when is this going live?

01:03:32.139 --> 01:03:34.059
And then how can people keep up with you?

01:03:34.539 --> 01:03:38.219
So to keep up with me, the I'm on TikTok.

01:03:38.380 --> 01:03:48.460
We do, I do, I did a fairly wide spat of um videos that were part of the art piece as just the civic outreach.

01:03:48.619 --> 01:04:14.380
So right now, between now and mid-2026, I'm going to be traveling around uh around North America, introducing this to city councils and town councils to get their support and their endorsement, and uh local organizations, you know, in each uh each municipality and each city and presenting this project to get to get their support and their buy-in.

01:04:15.420 --> 01:04:24.940
Um that you can follow on uh through my website, uh, which is alchemyartworkshop.org.

01:04:25.179 --> 01:04:35.500
That is our that has everything on there that has our our new initiatives that are moving forward, our other projects that we'll be working on over the next um the next number of years.

01:04:35.659 --> 01:04:40.380
Um you can also see the project itself, where it came from.

01:04:40.619 --> 01:04:50.219
Um there's every video of every, you know, there's access to interviews and things like that that we've done that will kind of give everybody a really good idea.

01:04:50.460 --> 01:04:58.139
And if you want to donate, you know, we're always open to because we are, we are, we haven't started completely fundraising yet.

01:04:58.619 --> 01:05:00.619
Um, that will come about.

01:05:00.699 --> 01:05:06.219
But if you know, we need support, we do need dollars and cents to make these projects move forward.

01:05:06.460 --> 01:05:14.380
And it takes people, like regular people from all all kinds of people to make stuff like this happen.

01:05:14.699 --> 01:05:18.139
And uh and you can email me.

01:05:18.780 --> 01:05:21.340
I'm always open to discuss this.

01:05:21.500 --> 01:05:23.739
I I I'm I'm in it.

01:05:24.059 --> 01:05:32.219
And if somebody wants to debate, you you know whether or not they like it or they don't, you know, and I've been given, you know, I've had people that are like, I don't like what you're doing.

01:05:33.980 --> 01:05:34.300
Okay.

01:05:35.179 --> 01:05:36.539
What is their reason?

01:05:36.860 --> 01:05:45.260
Oh, so one of the most recent was, and I'll I'm I'm not going to out this person, but it was actually at the end of an interview from a reporter.

01:05:46.059 --> 01:05:50.780
And at the end of it, we they turned, they turned off the recorder and said, Thank you.

01:05:50.940 --> 01:05:51.900
That was really good.

01:05:52.059 --> 01:05:56.139
And then off the record, they were like, I feel like you're attacking men.

01:05:56.539 --> 01:05:59.340
I feel really personally attacked by this.

01:05:59.900 --> 01:06:04.460
And I was a little taken aback and I was put off my back, I was put on my back foot.

01:06:04.619 --> 01:06:09.579
And his immediate comment right after that was, you know, that women abuse too.

01:06:09.820 --> 01:06:13.099
And I just was like, okay, how do I, how do I handle this?

01:06:13.179 --> 01:06:23.099
And I had my board chair with me, and I, you know, I diffused it very quickly by saying, Yeah, I had to say, you're right, because it's a you're right.

01:06:23.820 --> 01:06:29.820
But 97 or 98% of the deaths that happen are because of men.

01:06:30.539 --> 01:06:34.380
The statistics kind of prove you wrong that, you know, it is this.

01:06:34.460 --> 01:06:38.300
He's like, well, I feel like, I feel like you're attacking, you're attacking men.

01:06:38.460 --> 01:06:40.139
I feel personally attacked by this.

01:06:40.300 --> 01:06:41.659
Women do this too.

01:06:41.900 --> 01:06:50.059
And I said, like, and I, and then I had to bring in, I said, you know, you gotta understand, like, where I'm coming from is not, I'm not trying to shame or blame men.

01:06:50.219 --> 01:06:52.619
There's no shame or blame in in in this.

01:06:52.699 --> 01:06:56.780
It's just like this is the reality that that we have all lived in.

01:06:57.019 --> 01:07:02.539
And I said, you know, quite honestly, and as I said earlier, it's like I was not a saint.

01:07:02.699 --> 01:07:06.539
And I said, these are the things that I went through that made me complicit.

01:07:07.019 --> 01:07:15.099
And he was I was able to disarm him, but I was really quite surprised that it was like, because I've had it online.

01:07:15.260 --> 01:07:24.380
I've had people say that to me online, where they, you know, where it's men that will say, hey, you know, like we really don't like the fact that the call is coming from inside the house.

01:07:25.420 --> 01:07:32.699
And I've had, you know, but to have somebody do it directly in front of me was really surprising.

01:07:33.019 --> 01:07:37.179
And I'm like, that's that's how pervasive this is.

01:07:37.659 --> 01:07:45.019
But then I said, I said to him, I said, clearly, me just talking about this is enough of an irritant for you.

01:07:45.500 --> 01:07:47.980
You don't even, you haven't even seen the piece.

01:07:48.699 --> 01:07:50.139
It's not even built.

01:07:50.380 --> 01:07:52.460
And you're already complaining about it.

01:07:52.860 --> 01:07:54.780
So I'm like, I'm doing something right.

01:07:55.099 --> 01:07:56.460
And he's like, Yeah, okay.

01:07:56.539 --> 01:07:57.260
Oh, yeah, okay.

01:07:57.420 --> 01:08:00.619
Then he was he kind of was able to go, okay, yeah, I see what you mean.

01:08:00.780 --> 01:08:06.460
But to have it in front of me like that was really quite surprising and very shocking.

01:08:07.260 --> 01:08:07.659
Right.

01:08:07.820 --> 01:08:13.019
I I kind of feel that if your first reaction of hearing this is, oh, I don't like it.

01:08:13.179 --> 01:08:16.300
And I think that this is just this is a really bad bad idea.

01:08:16.539 --> 01:08:24.780
Because I mean, as a woman, if I were to go through this exhibit, it may make me think about things that I've done or said or believed.

01:08:24.940 --> 01:08:26.300
Like you said, it's a mirror.

01:08:26.539 --> 01:08:27.180
Yeah.

01:08:27.659 --> 01:08:30.860
And there's nothing wrong with people people taking a look at themselves.

01:08:31.180 --> 01:08:34.780
No, and you that's how that's how we learn about ourselves.

01:08:34.940 --> 01:08:37.899
We look at ourselves and go, oh, I need to change this.

01:08:38.460 --> 01:08:41.500
And it's, I mean, the thing is, is your exhibit is a mirror.

01:08:41.579 --> 01:08:44.460
And if they don't like what they're seeing, it's not your exhibit.

01:08:44.539 --> 01:08:46.619
It's something on the inside of them.

01:08:47.180 --> 01:08:49.659
Very, very astute, very clear thinking.

01:08:49.819 --> 01:08:49.979
Yeah.

01:08:50.220 --> 01:08:50.699
Really good.

01:08:50.779 --> 01:08:51.340
Thank you.

01:08:51.659 --> 01:08:52.060
Yeah.

01:08:52.859 --> 01:08:53.260
There you go.

01:08:53.420 --> 01:08:54.300
You can say that.

01:08:54.539 --> 01:08:56.539
Oh, it's you.

01:08:56.699 --> 01:08:57.579
It's not me.

01:09:00.060 --> 01:09:01.899
We so rarely get a chance to do that.

01:09:02.060 --> 01:09:03.100
Oh, it is you.

01:09:03.420 --> 01:09:04.140
It was you.

01:09:04.699 --> 01:09:05.180
Totally.

01:09:05.340 --> 01:09:06.380
It was not me.

01:09:08.300 --> 01:09:17.340
Um, okay, so if somebody say somebody wanted you to come to their city and they had wanted to put you in contact, would they get in touch with you the same way that you were mentioning?

01:09:17.579 --> 01:09:17.819
Yep.

01:09:17.979 --> 01:09:18.220
Okay.

01:09:18.460 --> 01:09:18.779
Yeah.

01:09:18.939 --> 01:09:20.699
I I don't hide behind anything.

01:09:20.779 --> 01:09:25.340
You know, like there is a I, you know, people contact me directly, constantly.

01:09:25.420 --> 01:09:28.060
I'm not behind some kind of like firewall.

01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:31.979
It's like, no, if you want to, hey, if you want to talk about this, like let's talk about it.

01:09:32.140 --> 01:09:34.220
If you love it or hate it, I don't care.

01:09:34.380 --> 01:09:36.939
Like, if I if I change your mind, great.

01:09:37.020 --> 01:09:38.460
If I don't, I fine.

01:09:38.699 --> 01:09:39.979
You don't have to come to the piece.

01:09:40.060 --> 01:09:41.739
Like, that's that's your choice, man.

01:09:41.899 --> 01:09:43.979
Like, I'm not forcing you to do anything.

01:09:44.140 --> 01:09:48.220
There's no forcing through this, but you know, dare you.

01:09:48.460 --> 01:09:50.539
Go just try it.

01:09:50.859 --> 01:09:52.380
I triple dog dare you.

01:09:52.539 --> 01:10:07.420
Yeah, I'm sorry that I'm you know, this is a really serious topic, and I apologize that I'm making, you know, I feel like I need to apologize for the levity, but because it's like for me, I've been in this and it's such a dark place that my only way to sometimes, I gotta, we gotta laugh.

01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:10.220
We still have to, you know, it's serious, I get it.

01:10:10.460 --> 01:10:16.859
But for me, it's like I I do need to I'm I'm I use jokes to deflect the real pain.

01:10:16.939 --> 01:10:44.859
So because it's it's a hard, this is a hard topic, and this has been um this is this is this has been a lot of really heavy soul searching and a lot of retrospection and a lot of digging into stuff that even talking with my mother about what her experience was like, you know, talking to my friends, talking to girlfriends, talking to, you know, the men in my life about what's happened with them.

01:10:45.260 --> 01:10:51.819
You know, this is you know, you sit in that shit long enough, man, it's it starts to burn.

01:10:52.140 --> 01:10:58.859
And so my uh my way of kind of going through it is that I really I really still need to joke.

01:11:00.060 --> 01:11:01.340
We still gotta laugh, man.

01:11:01.420 --> 01:11:08.380
Like yeah, and and the listeners for this podcast, they've heard me laugh about stuff before.

01:11:08.539 --> 01:11:10.140
So I mean I have to.

01:11:12.699 --> 01:11:24.220
You know, provide a little bit of a caveat to be like, hey, this is this is uh this is a hard topic, and you know there's you know I have to, I'm in therapy because this has just been dredging up a lot of stuff.

01:11:24.380 --> 01:11:25.659
So you gotta get it.

01:11:25.819 --> 01:11:26.380
Oh, I'm sure.

01:11:26.460 --> 01:11:28.140
I'm sure through it.

01:11:29.260 --> 01:11:29.899
Yeah.

01:11:30.380 --> 01:11:33.260
Okay, Christopher, do you think we've missed anything?

01:11:33.579 --> 01:11:34.460
I don't think so.

01:11:34.699 --> 01:11:35.579
This is so enjoyable.

01:11:36.460 --> 01:11:37.180
I've really enjoyed this.

01:11:37.260 --> 01:11:38.619
This is Yes, so have I.

01:11:38.779 --> 01:11:40.300
I would love to have you back on too.

01:11:40.380 --> 01:11:45.899
Once I mean, I know you're going to be super busy once you take this live and start going on tour with it.

01:11:45.979 --> 01:11:52.859
But I'd love to, even if you could just like send me a little video that I can pop up of like, hey, this is where we are, this is what we're doing.

01:11:52.939 --> 01:11:53.659
That'd be so cool.

01:11:53.899 --> 01:11:55.100
Well, here's the interesting thing.

01:11:55.260 --> 01:11:58.859
So when we're on the road with this, we're gonna be traveling around in a tour bus.

01:11:59.020 --> 01:12:02.939
Um, so it'll be myself and five other five other people that will be in the tour bus.

01:12:03.020 --> 01:12:07.020
And we're gonna be not that I'm not that I'm doing this now, but it will happen later.

01:12:07.100 --> 01:12:16.460
But we're gonna be while we're on the road, um, through the two years or 33 months that it's going to be up, we're gonna be producing a podcast called The Crucible.

01:12:16.619 --> 01:12:35.500
Um, so the Alchemy Art Workshop Crucible, and we'll be talking with people all across the country, um, with service providers from lived experience, from survivors to people like me, like you, that will just come and talk about their own experience and add to the piece.

01:12:35.819 --> 01:12:40.619
So the the the recordings then become part of the piece.

01:12:42.140 --> 01:12:46.300
You see, this is this is what I'm talking about, the your kind of brain.

01:12:46.460 --> 01:12:47.899
This is such a good idea.

01:12:48.060 --> 01:12:49.260
How cool is that?

01:12:49.579 --> 01:12:52.859
So we'll be, yeah, we'll be we'll be producing that in the tour bus.

01:12:52.939 --> 01:12:56.380
So we'll have a little little studio at a table in the in the bus.

01:12:56.779 --> 01:13:08.859
That will be our uh our little podcast studio for me and a remote person and somebody on site so that we can we can produce something and uh add that to the narrative.

01:13:09.100 --> 01:13:09.659
I love this.

01:13:09.739 --> 01:13:12.859
I'm sad that it's so far away, but it it'll be here in like no time.

01:13:13.180 --> 01:13:13.579
No time.

01:13:13.659 --> 01:13:18.060
I'm so we start fabricating third quarter of 2026.

01:13:18.619 --> 01:13:20.300
This is so fast.

01:13:21.500 --> 01:13:25.979
And all this started on January 5th, 2025, and this is where I brought it.

01:13:26.140 --> 01:13:34.060
Like I said, I'm I'm I'm really unbelievably grateful that I that I that I tapped into whatever I tapped into this.

01:13:34.380 --> 01:13:39.659
Well, as a survivor of intimate partner violence, I'm incredibly grateful that you've tapped into this.

01:13:39.819 --> 01:13:42.460
This is this is really something incredible.

01:13:42.859 --> 01:13:48.300
This is a wonderful, this is uh a sad field to be working in.

01:13:48.779 --> 01:13:53.420
But I like I said, I am so eternally optimistic.

01:13:53.659 --> 01:14:00.140
I can't not be optimistic that there is a that this that that we're going to shift the needle.

01:14:00.779 --> 01:14:01.579
I think so.

01:14:02.460 --> 01:14:03.260
I really do think so.

01:14:03.500 --> 01:14:09.579
Okay, so do you have any words of wisdom or encouragement that you would like to leave with listeners?

01:14:09.899 --> 01:14:12.220
Oh my god, I always I'm always coming up.

01:14:12.460 --> 01:14:15.899
I I'm I'm so afraid of like saying stupid things.

01:14:16.060 --> 01:14:18.460
Um I say stupid things all the time.

01:14:18.699 --> 01:14:23.100
There's I I am so so grateful there is so much help out there for people.

01:14:23.260 --> 01:14:29.340
So, you know, they're there if you know somebody, you gotta say something.

01:14:29.579 --> 01:14:34.300
Your silence is your own complicity, and we don't want to continue with the complicity.

01:14:34.539 --> 01:14:39.340
Um and to any artist out there, create good work.

01:14:39.579 --> 01:14:40.300
Yes, I love it.

01:14:40.460 --> 01:14:42.300
Well, Christopher, thank you so much.

01:14:42.539 --> 01:14:43.739
Thank you very much, Ingrid.

01:14:43.899 --> 01:14:45.020
This was this was really great.

01:14:45.180 --> 01:14:45.579
This was lovely.

01:14:45.819 --> 01:14:46.220
I did too.

01:14:46.460 --> 01:14:47.500
You are lovely.

01:14:47.819 --> 01:14:49.020
You are lovely.

01:14:49.340 --> 01:14:54.460
No, you know you all right, thank you.

01:14:54.699 --> 01:14:55.500
I appreciate it.

01:14:55.659 --> 01:14:56.779
Thank you so much.

01:14:57.180 --> 01:14:59.819
Thank you again, Christopher, for joining me today.

01:14:59.899 --> 01:15:02.220
And thank you, Warriors, for listening.

01:15:02.380 --> 01:15:07.899
I've included the links Christopher was referring to as well as his one in three profile in the show notes.

01:15:08.140 --> 01:15:11.500
I will be back next week with another episode for you.

01:15:11.659 --> 01:15:13.579
Until then, stay strong.

01:15:13.739 --> 01:15:19.500
And wherever you are in your journey, always remember you are not alone.

01:15:22.939 --> 01:15:29.739
Find more information, register as a guest, or leave a review by going to the website onein3podcast.com.

01:15:29.899 --> 01:15:34.300
That's the number one, IN the number three podcast.com.

01:15:34.539 --> 01:15:39.260
Follow one in three on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at one and three podcast.

01:15:39.579 --> 01:15:43.579
To help me out, please remember to rate review and subscribe.

01:15:43.819 --> 01:15:46.699
One in three is a point five Panoy production.

01:15:46.859 --> 01:15:49.579
Music written and performed by Tim Crow.