WEBVTT
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Hi Warriors, welcome to one in three.
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I'm your host Incredible.
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How often do we hear the question, why don't they just leave, when talking about victims of domestic violence?
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Today's conversation may change that question entirely.
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I'm joined by Dr.
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Danielle, someone I feel is one of the most qualified voices to speak on legal abuse.
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Through her personal story and expertise, we'll explore a deeper, more important question.
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What happens when they do leave?
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Here's Danielle.
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Hi Danielle, thank you so much for joining me today, and welcome to One in Three.
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I'm very, very happy to have you here.
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Well, thank you, Ingrid.
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I'm happy to be here.
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We have, we just were mentioning that there is so much that we could talk about, but before we get into any of that conversation, could you share some of a background with the listeners just so they can get to know you a little bit?
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Uh well, I was born and raised in Switzerland.
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My accent comes from the French-speaking part of Switzerland and learning English in India.
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So it got mixed up.
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And I like to start with that because people don't listen to me until they can place that accent.
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That's very interesting, yeah.
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So I was traveling, just learning English, and you know, in India.
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When I came to this country, I had a very strong Indian accent, and now it's kind of mixed up, depending how tired or focused I am.
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So that.
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And then I started uh I've always been interested in how the brain works.
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I wanted to be a brain surgeon.
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My parents couldn't afford a study, so I went into psychology.
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And also I had uh I was diagnosed with skin cancer when I was 15, and I had surgery every six months.
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Then the uh the Institute of Psychology told me, We're also teaching nutrition.
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Why don't you look into that?
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So I did that, bought my first juicer when I was uh 18 years old, and I stopped going to the surgeon.
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And you know what I needed was a deep cleanse, and I've kept a foot both in psychology and in nutrition ever since.
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I got a doctorate as a naturopath.
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When was that?
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In 90, oh in 94, I believe, and then my PhD in uh natural health in 96, and my study was still in the brain, so I did it on the uh the healing power of the mind.
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And uh, well, I got married in uh 80, had my first daughter in 82, I home birthed and homeschooled seven children, but I didn't realize that I was living in an abusive relationship.
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My ex-husband was always telling me, Well, you're a European, you don't understand the American way.
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And we lived very isolated, so I didn't have anybody around to really compare.
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And when I was doing my uh ND or my PhD, I uh I ended up looking into the power of the mind, what I could study on that.
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And I found a doctor in uh Mill Valley in California, and I listened to him, say that guy is different.
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And then I told my ex, you know, I have so much uh digestive problems, I want to go see that doctor.
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And he agreed on that, and that doctor was amazing, and then I joined their group and uh I studied interactive guided imagery.
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And going back, I went to a client of mine and says, you know, these people are like Swiss people.
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And she said, Welcome to America, you've been in hell until now.
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So yeah, eventually I filed for divorce, and uh it got even worse.
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I remember visiting a colleague there in Mill Valley from the group, and we were talking about my practice and my studies, and you know, we were enjoying it, and then she says, Well, how is it going with your divorce?
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And she said, It's like you just went like that.
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And she took an appointment with a therapist, and okay, we talked, and I didn't think much of it, but she gave me some books to read, and it was amazing.
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It was like that therapist was right in my living room knowing exactly what was happening, because a lot of it was verbal abuse, and to me, I never considered that abuse.
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Yeah, because I uh it's hard to understand it, right?
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Verbal abuse, and then you can't prove it necessarily either.
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You cannot prove it, and the other thing, my ex came from a very abusive family.
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He saw his mom in a hospital many times.
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Uh, I was told when he was 12 years old they found him in a tree with a gun, he was gonna kill his stepfather.
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So he came from a very bad background.
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I was lucky, I had wonderful parents.
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They were married for 65 years until uh my mom passed away.
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I never heard them argue on anything.
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They talked, they had different points of view, but there was no violence and they were very supportive parents.
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So I thought when I met him and I learned about his background, I thought, well, you know, maybe I can help him.
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And basically I married him because I felt sorry for him.
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And 20 years later, I was the one that uh had a lot of health issues.
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And I didn't know why.
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Now his mom was beaten so people could see it.
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He would rape me and uh do uh uh verbal abuse, and I was isolated, living in the forest alone with my kids and dogs, and I didn't know any better.
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Did he verbally abuse the children too?
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Yeah, you know, he came home from work around four o'clock, and we were playing with the kids and doing the uh homework.
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He came home and everybody disappeared in their bedroom.
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So they were afraid of him.
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And um, yeah, I was terrified of him.
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Yeah.
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And how old how old were they when you filed for divorce?
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My youngest was five, which means my oldest was uh 17.
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Okay.
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And I mean abusers have a great way of making sure they look fantastic to everyone else in the world.
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Uh, did he did the children?
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I mean, they would hide when he would come home, but when you filed for divorce, did they understand?
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Did they take sides?
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Did they try to stay neutral?
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Well, I never talked badly about their father.
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They saw what was happening.
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And once they turned 18, they left and never talked to the father again for years.
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And now my two youngest are kind of still talking with them, trying to have a father.
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But the others know they know.
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And, you know, during the divorce, I learned that uh he had been uh had been or still was a pedophile.
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He had uh raped his uh younger sister for eight years, had molested another one.
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Was he ever prosecuted for that?
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No.
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I mean, there were, you know, I tried to go back, but for some reason, you know, nothing was ever done.
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But I know his his sister had so much problem.
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I think she's been married four or five times, divorced into drugs.
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And when we went to visit, very rarely did we visit the family, his family.
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And uh she would hide, she would not come, you know, talk with us.
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And uh then when we were at some point in a divorce, I had the judge gave custody of the girls to me and custody of my son to the father.
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Okay, so how did that happen?
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Because that's what I don't understand.
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That's the part that I always these parts of the story make me angry.
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No things I get so frustrated with this.
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Yes, it is, and uh then the father was asking custody of the youngest one, and that sister manifested, I hadn't seen her for like 18, 20 years, and she wrote a letter uh to the judge saying, Don't give him custody of the youngest one because he raped me, and she you know, she detailed what he did to her, and six weeks later he had full custody of all my kids, and I I didn't get to see them for two years.
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I was supposed to have supervised meditation, he was supposed to arrange them, he never did.
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How many years?
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Two years.
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Oh my gosh.
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So zero contact.
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Were you able to like did they?
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Well, you know, they were teenagers.
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One of them would sneak out and had a cell phone and contacted me and said, Mom, I want to die.
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I can't live like that.
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And there was nothing I could do.
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They ran away twice.
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And uh how did that go?
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Yeah, the first time they ran away, they went.
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Okay, I didn't know he had raped his uh his sister.
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I received a letter in the morning, she gave me a copy of what she sent to the judge.
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And I read that the the night before, and we were supposed to go to court that uh the following morning.
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My daughter was, you know, I was driving, and my heart started to go into fibrillation.
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So I contacted uh a doctor, uh medical doctor friend of mine, say you immediately go to the hospital.
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So my daughter, you know, dropped me at the hospital, told the court I couldn't make it.
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She saw me, you know, with all kinds of tubes and stuff, and she said, Mom, I just bought a car with a big trunk.
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I'm gonna take my siblings, run away to protect them.
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And she did.
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She took the siblings and ran away somewhere in Colorado.
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I we were living in California.
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And to this day, I don't know where they went.
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Because she knew she would be tracked.
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So she would stop at a payphone, call somebody, who would call somebody else, who would call me saying they okay.
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And then all kinds of things happened with the court.
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The uh one of the deputy uh attorney, uh DA called me and said, you know, we need the children.
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I promise we'll protect the children, they will not go back to the father.
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And uh so they made an arrangement with the father's younger sister, who's a millionaire in Florida, to contact them so they could go there for safety.
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And uh my oldest daughter went, check them out, and as soon as she left, the father came, got full custody, and got them back to California with him.
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So was this the was this the younger sister of his that he had raped?
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Like the one in Florida?
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No, right.
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It was the youngest one he had not raped.
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Oh yeah, okay.
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He has he has two brothers and three sisters.
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He raped the oldest sister, he molested the second, but he didn't do anything to the third one.
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And then they made up a whole story that it wasn't true, that never happened.
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But the way she wrote her letter makes me believe that it was true because the things he did to her, he also did to me.
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So anyway, they went back to him, and uh yeah, that that was a huge shock.
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And a few weeks, months, I didn't go back to my timeline.
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Um he accused one of my daughters of having stolen a purse in Florida.
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And she said, no, she didn't.
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And uh he was, I don't know, was accusatory, she was terrified, she got a knife, she called the cops, said, I'm afraid of my dad, please come help.
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The cops came, handcuffed her, put her in the back of a police car, drove her to a psychiatric clinic.
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Where she spent a week.
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Oh my gosh.
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Were you notified when that happened?
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No, I was notified later on by my they were in contact with my oldest daughter who was in her 20s at that time.
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And um, yeah, she went there.
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She told me, you know, the doctor wanted to give me medication, and I told him I don't want any medication, it's not gonna change the situation.
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And then he was also threatening to put the two younger ones there if they didn't obey him.
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So my oldest daughter, okay, let's see, daughter number one and four took a car and went to see their sibling in the psychiatric clinic.
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And uh they visited her.
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The father heard about it, so he put like a uh a restraining order that nobody but him was allowed to see that daughter.
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And they they approved this restraining order?
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Did a judge signed the restraining order?
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No, that was the hospital.
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He told the hospital as far as I not to let anybody see the daughter except him.
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So these two daughters, one and four, went to the consulate in San Francisco.
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We're on their way to the consulate because I'm Swiss, so my kids are Swiss too, to ask for help.
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But in between, I don't remember how it happened, but they they heard that uh the father had filed a kidnapping order, that my oldest, who was in her 20s, had kidnapped a 16-year-old and uh that they were gonna be arrested.
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So they didn't end up in a consulate, they went back and uh so that's you know that's part of the thing.
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And we were talking earlier about uh temporary restraining orders.
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I had about a one-foot file with CPS that neighbors, friends, psychologists, therapists, medical doctors had said, you know, the mother is a great mother, the father is abusive.
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And the court said, well, she's brainwashing everybody.
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I was not allowed to bring any of the files from CPS to get custody of my children.
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Why?
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Don't I just stop asking the question?
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I mean, there was a small town.
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The uh the head of CPS was the wife of the DA who worked with my ex.
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He didn't need an attorney finally because the DA was his attorney.
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This is so awful.
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So that's what legal abuse is.
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Is you know things go totally oui.
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And uh when we go to court, when we start, you expect the judge to protect your children.
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And then it spiles out of control, and you made to believe that you are you're the crazy one.
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Yeah.
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Well, and and and you're just protective, and of course, like you might feel even a little crazy because you can't understand how this is happening, and all you want to do is protect your children.
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Yeah.
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And they send us to uh to a therapist to make a custody, you know, the custody recommendation.
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And I didn't realize that until later, but I had a client at that time that was referred to me because she had lost custody of her three-year-old, and the father was a known alcoholic and drug abuser.
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And my whole thing was what did the judge see in her that I can't see because she seemed to be a great mother.
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Well, six months later, I had a report from the same psychologist for custody.
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It was a 13-page report, and as I was reading it, a client of mine who was a social worker had become a friend.
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So I was reading that at her place, and I was really saying, Well, if that is true, I'm not a good mother.
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They should not stay with me.
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And she shook me and said, It's not you, it's a system.
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Because there is literally not one paragraph that was correct, it was all made up.
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And how did that happen?
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Is I was supposed to get the children back on a Sunday night, and he did not bring the children back, and they were supposed to go see that psychologist the following Friday.
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So he kept the children the whole week to tell them what to tell the psychologist.
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And I called my attorney and said, you know, I'm supposed to have custody, he's not bringing the children back.
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The response of my attorney was, Well, you better stay home because if he brings them back and you're not there, you're gonna be in contempt of court.
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But wouldn't he be in contempt of court for not bringing the children?
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Apparently not.
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Oh my gosh.
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What was the reason that a judge ruled that he got 100% custody and you didn't get to see your children for two years?
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I don't know because he had that letter like I did, that he had raped his sister, and you know, I was telling all kind of I I had files upon files of things that I had written, what he had done.
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But I was just that bad woman.
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You know, okay, where was I?
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So the children, after my daughter went to the to the psychiatric clinic, they made plans on running away again because he was gonna put them all in a psychiatric clinic, and they achieved that.
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And people helped them and they got a car and they drove to Las Vegas, where my two oldest and myself were living, and I knew I couldn't see the kids.
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So my daughter had an attorney and they went all to see the attorney.
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She prepared a TRO and protective orders, and it was the day before Christmas.
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So, because we filed everything, then she said you can have your children for Christmas.
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We still hid at friends' houses in different motels.
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So the children were with me, and the court hearing was constantly postponed, and another one and another one.
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And then somewhere around April, I think was the 17th, the uh US Marshals surrounded our home and uh took uh my oldest daughter was there.
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They handcuffed her and put her in a police car.
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She was going to a very important um symposium.
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She was a stunt woman, and she was gonna go to her third event that probably would have launched her career, and she was in a police car.
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My uh 15-year-old was taken out of her room at gunpoint by the US Marshals, and obviously they arrested me, and uh my daughter spent four years four days in jail, and uh I spent six months in maximum security.
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Maximum security?
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Yes, with drug dealers, with murderers.
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Oh my gosh.
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Because your 15-year-old was there?
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Or what was no because uh, you know, there was what five of the children had run away and they said I had kidnapped them.
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Oh my god.
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So they did not want me to be tried in Las Vegas because the whole thing had been a fraud.
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So I had to be transferred back to California to go through trial.
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And in order to go uh transfer from one state to another, you have to have the signature of both governors of California and Nevada and both attorney generals from California and Nevada.
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And I have that letter that says we can prove that she physically went to California to kidnap the children.
00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:17.980
I was 500 miles away.
00:21:19.099 --> 00:21:23.099
I never went there to kidnap the children.
00:21:23.500 --> 00:21:32.619
During when we started uh the court procedure for the trial, uh the judge asked, How did the children go from point A to point B?
00:21:33.099 --> 00:21:36.380
And the DA said it's irrelevant.
00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:39.579
And my public defender said nothing.
00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:41.500
How is that irrelevant?
00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:54.940
I mean that's what they that's what they do when they when they try to prosecute somebody for murder, they they show a timeline how it was it was impossible for this person to do all of that in this time frame.
00:21:55.500 --> 00:22:00.220
That why wouldn't your does your did your public defender just not care?
00:22:00.700 --> 00:22:04.859
He told me I was a vicious woman who didn't want to obey her husband.
00:22:05.259 --> 00:22:06.940
The public defender said this?
00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:08.940
Your so your attorney.
00:22:09.339 --> 00:22:09.980
Yeah.
00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:11.819
Oh my god.
00:22:12.220 --> 00:22:20.059
And that if I did not sign a plea bargain, I was gonna be put in prison for seven years, no questions asked.
00:22:20.299 --> 00:22:23.259
I had 40 witnesses I could have produced.
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:25.339
They refused.
00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:28.539
The judge did not want to listen to any of them.
00:22:28.779 --> 00:22:34.220
There was one witness that would have been allowed in a trial, was one of the U.S.
00:22:34.299 --> 00:22:37.019
Marshals that found the children in Las Vegas.
00:22:37.180 --> 00:22:41.019
And that would have sent me seven years in prison.
00:22:41.980 --> 00:22:43.740
So what was the plea deal?
00:22:44.779 --> 00:22:53.259
The plea deal was uh five years probation and the time served and not seeing my children.
00:22:53.500 --> 00:22:56.940
Uh I remember if they they put it two years.
00:22:57.099 --> 00:23:02.220
The reason I was five years on probation is so the children would not run away again.
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:08.539
Because the children were told if you run away again, we're gonna put your sister and your mother back in jail.
00:23:09.819 --> 00:23:11.339
This is awful.
00:23:11.660 --> 00:23:22.539
So who was did your ex-husband have connections to hire people that he was able to orchestrate all this?
00:23:23.259 --> 00:23:34.059
Well, I was told by a psychiatrist, uh uh family therapist, and a psychologist that he was a psychopath, a true psychopath.
00:23:34.460 --> 00:23:56.700
And apparently I I studied, excuse me, I studied a psychopath, and they have that uncanny ability to feel what a person is uh kind of weak or has you know biases, so he could feel what the judge wanted to hear, he could feel what the cops wanted to hear.
00:23:56.940 --> 00:24:16.059
You know, one time my uh my he beat up my daughter, he uh hurt her arm, and then the cops were called, she went to the hospital, and one of the cops said, Well, teenagers don't obey, even if he had uh broken her arm, I would have considered just discipline.
00:24:16.779 --> 00:24:17.420
What?
00:24:18.619 --> 00:24:31.740
So, and then other cops sometime came to help and they said, you know, we'd love to help you, but the judge is God in this uh county, and you know, if I try to protect your children, I'd lose my job.
00:24:31.819 --> 00:24:34.220
And I have a wife and two or three children.
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:35.180
I can't do that.
00:24:35.420 --> 00:24:51.259
So even on the rare occasion you had somebody that recognized that you needed help and you were not this horrible person they were painting you out to be, they were too fearful for their own safety to do anything.
00:24:53.500 --> 00:25:00.380
How do you cope with like did you stop fighting or did you continue?
00:25:00.940 --> 00:25:04.140
No, I continued fighting until all the kids were 18.
00:25:04.700 --> 00:25:08.380
So what's interesting, there's got there was another judge.
00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:11.339
So I decided, okay, I haven't seen my kid for two years.
00:25:11.500 --> 00:25:13.339
Let's try this judge.
00:25:13.660 --> 00:25:18.539
And he gave me custody back, which you know was kind of amazing.
00:25:18.700 --> 00:25:28.619
But the children, he told the children they'd have to go for a weekend every other month, spend time with their father, because he wanted the children to have a father.
00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:37.099
So we lived, I lived in Las Vegas, he was still in California, so every two months I brought the children, stayed with friends.
00:25:37.339 --> 00:25:43.819
And the judge had said after uh you know, a year, if you don't want to go, you won't have to go.
00:25:44.059 --> 00:25:48.700
Well, the year passed, we went back, and the judge said, Yeah, that didn't work.
00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:51.500
Now let's try to get you there every month.
00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:57.980
And I want a mother in court also every month, so we can see how the situation goes.
00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:05.339
Now, my son is a dwarf, so it's easy when you see a dwarf to think that he's not mentally quiet there.
00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:14.059
Well, my son was very sharp, but the father put him in a special ed saying he can do anything.
00:26:14.779 --> 00:26:18.779
And okay, so he was in special ed in sixth grade.
00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:27.339
I got custody for a year, and he uh he had to take the uh public school end-of-year event in Las Vegas.
00:26:28.059 --> 00:26:30.220
He didn't need special ed anymore.
00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:34.700
He went from sixth grade to eighth grade in one year.
00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:41.740
We went back to court and I was you know so happy to show that to the judge.
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:43.740
Would you guess what he said?
00:26:44.539 --> 00:26:45.740
I don't want to know.
00:26:45.980 --> 00:26:51.500
I mean, I do, but the state of Nevada must have cheated on the test.
00:26:51.819 --> 00:26:57.180
Therefore, we're gonna put the son back with the father so he gets a proper education.
00:26:57.740 --> 00:26:58.299
What?
00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:09.900
So now the whole state is is colluding against what and then my son went to school like half a day a week.
00:27:10.059 --> 00:27:22.460
The rest of the time he was alone in a house watching movies, and I went to a parent uh teacher conference on the phone, and the kid they were talking about was not my kid.
00:27:22.619 --> 00:27:27.740
He can't read, he can't concentrate, he can't do this, he can't do that.
00:27:28.299 --> 00:27:29.740
And he was brilliant.
00:27:29.980 --> 00:27:30.859
This is so sad.
00:27:31.099 --> 00:27:36.140
So, yeah, that's what legal abuse is.
00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:41.579
It's when the whole world goes upside down and we are not prepared for that.
00:27:41.740 --> 00:27:48.539
And anybody you talk to, they will say, well, you know, you should just get along for the sake of the children.
00:27:48.859 --> 00:27:55.259
But when you have an abuser, especially a psychopath, sociopath, or somebody who has connections, doesn't work.
00:27:55.579 --> 00:28:14.940
There's I mean, there is no co-parenting with a psychopath or a sociopath or really any abuser, because no abuser, despite a diagnosed, well, they're probably not diagnosed because they're not going to go get diagnosed personality disorder, none of them want to take accountability for what they've done.
00:28:15.180 --> 00:28:27.900
And they're going to blame someone else or something else for their actions, and they're going to do everything they can to convince everyone around them that they've done nothing wrong.
00:28:28.299 --> 00:28:38.299
Or whatever actions they've taken are justified by what they are trying to say that their victim has been doing.
00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:40.940
He never took care of the children.
00:28:41.500 --> 00:28:41.660
Of course.
00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:43.420
That was not his thing.
00:28:43.660 --> 00:28:45.420
Except when they were babies.
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:48.059
He would shower them, change diapers.
00:28:48.220 --> 00:28:53.259
And that was not a red flag for me because I didn't know he was a pedophile.
00:28:54.940 --> 00:28:57.259
So later on, yeah, I learned.
00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:03.420
So yeah, that's um, you know, when you were in it, well, you learned to survive.
00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:11.740
I was fortunate I already had all kinds of tools at my disposal to uh lower the stress.
00:29:12.220 --> 00:29:17.180
I knew how to eat to lower stress, I knew different techniques to lower stress.
00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:22.140
But still, when you go through insanity, it's you know, it's survival.
00:29:22.220 --> 00:29:29.259
That's one of my doctors told me it's not time for you to uh build a practice, you need to survive what's going on.
00:29:29.660 --> 00:29:41.660
And one after the other of my friend psychologists or therapists asked me not to tell them what was happening because they couldn't deal with it until I found Dr.
00:29:41.900 --> 00:29:44.539
Huffer, uh Karen Huffer.
00:29:44.779 --> 00:29:47.819
Uh, she contacted me after I was out of jail.
00:29:47.980 --> 00:30:03.500
I don't remember how we got in contact, but she wanted to know, and uh, her and I started a support group for people suffering from legal abuse, not just in family court, that happens in elderly court, that happened with HOA.
00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:14.779
We had people who had been wrongfully terminated, and we would meet week after week and just use some of the techniques to help us survive one more week.
00:30:15.339 --> 00:30:22.700
And then I also met Linda Barnard, she passed away not that long ago, who was a therapist for legal abuse.
00:30:22.779 --> 00:30:35.099
So she understood, and I took her classes uh, you know, to do a custody evaluation, and she said she's one of the very few who actually do proper custody evaluation.
00:30:35.259 --> 00:30:40.140
Most of the evaluators have been trained by the father's rights movement.
00:30:41.099 --> 00:30:45.980
So the custody is not gonna be alright.
00:30:46.299 --> 00:30:56.539
And I remember like it was 22,000, we were picketing in uh not for my case, but for somebody else's case, and the judge is still there.
00:30:57.019 --> 00:31:18.299
And one of the custody evaluators, his report was he's abusing the children, he takes away everything uh they like, he humiliates them in front of uh people, he doesn't feed them properly, but the mother is a strong alienating force, so I recommend the children be put with uh the father.
00:31:19.339 --> 00:31:20.460
Does that make sense?
00:31:20.700 --> 00:31:29.980
No, so he recognizes all of the abuse, but because you're trying to protect your children, they should go to the abuser.
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:31.259
Something like that.
00:31:31.980 --> 00:31:34.380
I mean, it's it's pretty much it.
00:31:34.539 --> 00:31:37.259
The the whole father's rights movement.
00:31:37.579 --> 00:31:44.779
I recognized that healthy fathers should for sure have a place in children's lives.
00:31:45.019 --> 00:31:48.859
Healthy mothers should have a place in children's lives.
00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:57.019
And I recognize that both genders, you know, there can be abusers for both genders, or all genders, I suppose I should say.
00:31:57.339 --> 00:32:06.859
But and I know I also know that there's studies that show that children do better when they're exposed to both parents, but again, that's healthy parents.
00:32:07.420 --> 00:32:17.980
And the studies show that children who are exposed to abuse or toxic family environments actually do much worse long term.
00:32:18.140 --> 00:32:25.339
They live shorter lifespans, they have higher incidence of substance abuse, of suicide.
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:31.579
Um, and just generally yes, or yes, being murdered.
00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:34.940
That is just so as nine.
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:37.339
I know you had sent me Dr.
00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:46.460
Bandy Lee's information because she and I I started watching the program where she had this conference.
00:32:46.700 --> 00:32:51.019
One thing I I just remembered, so I screenshotted this at the very beginning.
00:32:51.259 --> 00:33:00.779
Mothers are five and a half times more likely to die in 10 years if they lose custody in family court than if they never entered family court.
00:33:01.019 --> 00:33:05.579
The common causes are murder, heart attack, cancer, substance use, and suicide.
00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:10.059
And that was from a study, I think, 2024.
00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:21.420
And then this since 2008, nearly 1,000 children have been murdered by a divorcing or separating parent during a custody dispute.
00:33:22.299 --> 00:33:24.460
Yeah, and it's getting worse.
00:33:25.660 --> 00:33:29.819
It is getting worse, and and everybody knows it, especially the judges.
00:33:29.980 --> 00:33:31.420
The judges are seeing this stuff.
00:33:31.660 --> 00:33:38.460
Yeah, you just you know, my my brothers in Switzerland said that would never happen in Switzerland.
00:33:38.619 --> 00:33:47.099
And yet, when I went back there in uh newspaper I was reading, there was a case like that, and in France and in Spain.
00:33:47.980 --> 00:33:49.180
So it's spreading.
00:33:49.339 --> 00:33:52.059
The bad stuff is spreading, unfortunately.
00:33:52.380 --> 00:33:53.019
It is.
00:33:53.339 --> 00:33:57.019
How many how many years did you spend fighting?
00:33:58.220 --> 00:34:00.859
Well, really 16 years.
00:34:01.500 --> 00:34:05.900
And then last year, uh, I've been living at people's homes.
00:34:05.980 --> 00:34:08.140
I I lost so much money.
00:34:08.300 --> 00:34:10.940
Uh, was a professor at an institute.
00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:14.059
I, you know, by now I would have been a millionaire.
00:34:14.300 --> 00:34:15.819
But I couldn't, yeah.
00:34:16.059 --> 00:34:22.140
I was teaching, and then we had the cop intervene and said I had kidnapped children and whatever.
00:34:22.460 --> 00:34:25.739
So I gave up about everything.
00:34:26.460 --> 00:34:29.900
And uh was what, two years ago, I think.
00:34:30.059 --> 00:34:33.420
My daughter said, you know, you're entitled to part of his retirement.
00:34:33.579 --> 00:34:34.940
He cannot get it.
00:34:35.179 --> 00:34:37.340
You know, you should ask for it.
00:34:37.579 --> 00:34:45.500
And I said, Well, you know, I knew that nine years ago, but uh the judge, the new judge, was his ex-attorney.
00:34:45.579 --> 00:34:47.980
So you think he's gonna sign the paper?
00:34:48.300 --> 00:34:50.699
Because the judge had to sign the paper.
00:34:50.860 --> 00:34:55.019
Oh, well, it's a different judge, so you know, try it.
00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:59.099
So she she did about everything to help out.
00:34:59.260 --> 00:35:04.860
And uh we went in front of the judge, and then he said, Okay, well, we should try to find the father.
00:35:04.940 --> 00:35:07.099
I'm saying, well, we don't know where he is.
00:35:07.420 --> 00:35:19.820
And then we went, you know, two months and two months, and it lasted a year and the last hearing, he was so proud to say, I my daughter, uh, I found your father.
00:35:20.059 --> 00:35:21.420
Aren't you happy?
00:35:21.659 --> 00:35:23.260
And she said, nothing.
00:35:23.739 --> 00:35:25.900
She was really shocked to see him.
00:35:26.380 --> 00:35:31.019
And uh he was still manipulating, you know.
00:35:31.260 --> 00:35:33.099
Your honor, I'm so sorry.
00:35:33.179 --> 00:35:34.619
I have a hard time speaking.
00:35:34.699 --> 00:35:36.780
I just came out of the hospital.
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:39.019
And talk about the paper.
00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:40.300
He had to sign the paper.
00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:43.900
Say, I tried to have her sign those papers three times.
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:45.739
She refused to sign the papers.
00:35:45.980 --> 00:35:48.219
So he's still just blatantly lying.
00:35:48.699 --> 00:35:53.900
He was still blatantly lying, and poor me, you know, I'm the victim here.
00:35:54.139 --> 00:36:00.059
But anyway, so everything got signed, and I got a little bit of money that allowed me to have an apartment.
00:36:00.139 --> 00:36:09.579
Finally, after 20 years that I had been living at my, you know, at friends, at my children's place, or being just in my car.
00:36:09.820 --> 00:36:12.219
And it it's it's so hard.
00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:15.820
Like, I don't want people to feel hopeless, but it is difficult.
00:36:16.059 --> 00:36:32.539
Like, you have to also be armed with the knowledge of these kind of situations to know you don't want to go in with false, you want to go in with hope, but you also need to go in with a recognition of what can happen.
00:36:33.260 --> 00:36:35.980
Yeah, and I don't know that anybody has that.
00:36:36.059 --> 00:36:38.699
It's a no, that's not true, that's not possible.
00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:41.099
And I worked with many different cases.
00:36:41.179 --> 00:36:50.059
I became an um ADA advocate, and then I quit because I saw so many, you know, different courts, it's all the same thing.
00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:56.300
The protective parent is you know being manipulated.
00:36:56.460 --> 00:37:02.860
And you know, my last case was in Colorado, I was helping a woman.
00:37:03.260 --> 00:37:08.219
As an advocate, I'm supposed to sit beside her to monitor her state.
00:37:08.380 --> 00:37:12.539
And if you know she gets emotional, then I can speak for her.
00:37:13.019 --> 00:37:19.659
And usually in court you have the defendant and the accuser are you know separated.
00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:26.300
There she was there, and the father was right behind her with two of his attorneys.
00:37:26.699 --> 00:37:30.300
And then CPS was there with their attorney against the mother.
00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:33.579
It was just it was horrible.
00:37:33.659 --> 00:37:35.820
It was like an Inquisition court.
00:37:37.099 --> 00:37:48.619
And uh she was she spent one year in jail because I was new on a case, I didn't get through everything.
00:37:48.780 --> 00:38:02.860
But my understanding is she had tried to get a GoFundMe account and had told about the situation without giving name, there was no name, you know, you know, if you didn't know the situation, you would not have known.
00:38:03.099 --> 00:38:08.300
But apparently a judge had asked her to remove that from Facebook.
00:38:08.539 --> 00:38:15.019
And she was living up in the country where she didn't have internet, so she did not remove that right away.
00:38:15.179 --> 00:38:19.820
So she was in contempt of court, and that's why she ended up one year in jail.
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:21.900
And the father was an abuser.
00:38:22.059 --> 00:38:29.739
She had found the uh the journal of her daughter stating what he was doing horrible things to these kids.
00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:35.179
But again, you know, the father, the father was a high-power guy.
00:38:35.659 --> 00:38:44.059
He had attorneys that he was paying, he had two attorneys, I think, paying a thousand dollars an hour, and uh she had no chance.
00:38:45.420 --> 00:38:50.699
She had she had uh had a problem with cancer and needed specific treatments.
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:54.139
The judge says, no, she doesn't have cancer.
00:38:54.699 --> 00:38:54.940
Wait.
00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:57.820
She had PT, she was diagnosed with PTSD.
00:38:57.980 --> 00:39:00.940
The judge says, no, she doesn't have PTSD.
00:39:01.820 --> 00:39:05.500
And she had a panic attack during the trial.
00:39:05.659 --> 00:39:10.860
The judge told her, I give you five minutes to you know get back to your senses.
00:39:11.099 --> 00:39:20.699
If you have a panic attack, you cannot force yourself to go back to being normal, but only accused of uh on every side.
00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:32.139
So, you know, I went out with her and we did some of the techniques, and she went back in court, but she was battered for nine hours, telling all kinds of stuff.
00:39:32.300 --> 00:39:35.260
And the father took the children out of their environment.
00:39:35.420 --> 00:39:39.179
They were not allowed to go to their, I think they were in dance classes.
00:39:39.340 --> 00:39:41.980
He totally took them away from everything.
00:39:42.219 --> 00:39:46.539
And she had another panic attack that night, went to the hospital.
00:39:46.780 --> 00:39:55.340
The next morning I went to the hospital, checked her out, went to court and said she's in the hospital, uh, she can come to court right now.
00:39:55.500 --> 00:40:01.420
So the judge continued the trial without her and got uh took her parental rights away.
00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:04.699
She's not allowed to see her children till they are 18.
00:40:05.340 --> 00:40:08.139
Because she didn't show up to court, more or less.
00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:10.139
Because she was in the hospital.
00:40:10.940 --> 00:40:21.900
This so okay, so now a judge has a medical degree and a psychology degree, and they can say that you don't have this is pure insanity.
00:40:22.460 --> 00:40:29.820
You know, as an ADA advocate, I'm supposed to be protected by the DOG, they have rules.
00:40:30.219 --> 00:40:40.380
When the judge asked me to step in as an advocate, I had two lawyers that interrogated me for 20 minutes.
00:40:40.539 --> 00:40:41.260
That's illegal.
00:40:41.340 --> 00:40:42.860
They're not allowed to do that.
00:40:43.099 --> 00:40:43.980
I went through that.
00:40:44.059 --> 00:40:48.539
Then I went to the ADA coordinator there and she said, There is nothing I can do.
00:40:48.699 --> 00:40:55.099
So I went to the state ADA coordinator, and her answer was, well, that's a judge's court.
00:40:55.179 --> 00:40:56.940
She can do what she wants.
00:40:57.420 --> 00:41:03.579
Then I went to the DOJ and explained what was happening, what had happened, and I never got an answer.
00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:07.579
So there's nobody keeping the judges in line.
00:41:07.739 --> 00:41:11.179
They get to just that's I think one of the big problems.
00:41:11.420 --> 00:41:25.340
And when I was in California, I helped to uh legislate, get new new laws passed, and we you know, we went to the uh to the capital in Sacramento and picketed and let legislature know.
00:41:25.820 --> 00:41:28.300
But the judge don't follow the rules.
00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:39.579
You know, I talked to some attorneys in San Francisco and Los Angeles to represent my case, and they say we're not going in these little towns, the judge do whatever they want.
00:41:40.059 --> 00:41:44.139
But there it was, you know, in Denver, Colorado, and that was the same thing.
00:41:44.300 --> 00:41:45.820
The judge just what she wants.
00:41:46.059 --> 00:41:51.179
And then even if you ask for an appeal or for a different judge, isn't it that judge that gets to decide?
00:41:51.579 --> 00:41:52.460
Yeah, that's the judge.
00:41:52.699 --> 00:41:56.780
If that gets moved to somebody else decide if he or she wants to recuse.
00:41:57.019 --> 00:41:57.260
Right.
00:41:57.739 --> 00:42:08.219
You know, what is interesting, when I was in jail, uh one of the gals was getting a newspaper and she showed me in the newspaper saying, Isn't that your judge?
00:42:08.539 --> 00:42:12.059
He had been accused of domestic violence and was jailed.
00:42:12.380 --> 00:42:15.820
And he was a head judge on domestic violence.
00:42:17.420 --> 00:42:23.420
But then the victim uh recanted and said, No, he didn't uh hit me.
00:42:23.579 --> 00:42:26.380
Uh I just rubbed my face against the carpet.
00:42:26.539 --> 00:42:36.780
Like later, later on, got him on real estate fraud, and he was put in prison.
00:42:36.940 --> 00:42:47.099
The same judge who took custody away from me when I was in uh Las Vegas did the same thing to my daughter, and she lost her children with the same judge.
00:42:47.900 --> 00:42:48.539
What?
00:42:48.860 --> 00:42:56.380
So that's why you know I help people to survive and then recover.
00:42:56.780 --> 00:43:01.340
I don't go to court because, you know, to me, what's the point?
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:05.820
I can you know tell people what they can or cannot do in court, maybe.
00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:15.099
But that's a waste of my time and their money for me to stand in court when the court is, you know, they do what they whatever they want.
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:15.900
There is no law.
00:43:16.139 --> 00:43:16.699
Oh my gosh.
00:43:16.860 --> 00:43:20.300
Well, let's let's talk about the the good stuff that you do then.
00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:21.900
So how do you help?
00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:23.340
How do you help?
00:43:23.820 --> 00:43:33.179
I'm so like so frustrated with because and I the part that's so frustrating is this isn't not this is not an isolated story.
00:43:33.500 --> 00:43:39.579
This is not just your story, and it's not just your daughter's story or or that other woman's story that you shared.
00:43:40.139 --> 00:43:44.139
I've been privy to hundreds of cases, and I know there are thousands.
00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:52.860
The number one thing is you need to get validation is so important when I realized I was not the crazy one.
00:43:52.940 --> 00:43:55.900
That's a whole system that has a problem.
00:43:56.300 --> 00:43:58.059
And then you fight against the system.
00:43:58.139 --> 00:44:10.380
That's why I'm very uh hopeful with what Bandy Lee is doing, because she was able to have a huge conference in Washington, DC, with I think there were four state representatives there.
00:44:10.860 --> 00:44:13.579
So it's going to a higher level.
00:44:14.780 --> 00:44:20.860
Maybe something's gonna happen before, you know, before we're spinning our wheels, you know, changing laws.
00:44:21.099 --> 00:44:23.099
And I stopped being in groups in Colorado.
00:44:23.659 --> 00:44:27.659
Because that's what they were trying to do, change the law, educate the judges.
00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:31.579
They don't need education, they know what's going on.
00:44:32.539 --> 00:44:35.340
And changing the law if they don't follow it.
00:44:35.500 --> 00:44:38.380
So I'd like to see judges accountable.
00:44:38.619 --> 00:44:45.260
And some judges actually end up, you know, um, you know, maybe in prison too for what they did.
00:44:45.500 --> 00:44:46.139
Yeah.
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:48.539
I mean, it's destroying lives.
00:44:49.179 --> 00:44:49.980
Absolutely.
00:44:50.139 --> 00:45:11.739
According to uh Karen Hoffer, who wrote the book Legal Abuse Syndrome, it's costing taxpayers in the billions a year for all the health problems that uh you know protective parents are having for the children later on, having all kinds of substance abuse, uh, you know, and it repeats a cycle.
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:12.539
Mm-hmm.
00:45:13.340 --> 00:45:19.579
And then you can actually develop like physical ailments from the psychological abuse.
00:45:20.059 --> 00:45:21.900
There's a lot of autoimmune.
00:45:22.300 --> 00:45:22.940
Yeah.
00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:29.739
Autoimmune, and uh, I was talking probably every month or so with a lady that was going through that.
00:45:29.980 --> 00:45:35.500
She couldn't see her child, her son, and she was so excited he was gonna be 18.
00:45:35.659 --> 00:45:38.780
She was finally going to reconnect with him.
00:45:39.019 --> 00:45:41.579
And she had been in the hospital for heart problem.
00:45:42.059 --> 00:45:47.420
And the last time I spoke with her, she said, I went to his graduation and said, Hey, congratulations.
00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:50.300
He looked at her and said, Who are you?
00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:54.139
And I never heard from her again.
00:45:54.380 --> 00:46:03.500
So that's you know, I don't really like to be with some groups and stuff because I was told too, your children are gonna be so grateful.
00:46:03.659 --> 00:46:06.059
I mean, you even went to jail for them.
00:46:06.300 --> 00:46:07.980
And it's not the case.
00:46:08.139 --> 00:46:24.699
Um many parents, when the children turn 18, they just run away from the whole situation and uh don't want to be part of anything because many uh protective parents hope that when their children are 18 they will turn against the system.
00:46:25.659 --> 00:46:32.139
And my daughters were part of the uh how they call them I forgot.
00:46:32.860 --> 00:46:34.539
The courageous kids.
00:46:34.860 --> 00:46:40.300
And uh my one of my daughters even received a medal for her courage to speak out.
00:46:40.539 --> 00:46:54.380
She was in a conference in uh in uh Southern California in San Diego and spoke up in a huge conference, and because of that, she must still have her medal, but she threw it away.
00:46:54.619 --> 00:46:56.219
She said, nothing changed.
00:46:56.380 --> 00:46:57.260
We got a medal.
00:46:57.420 --> 00:47:02.539
The DA, now the attorney general of California knows, and nothing changed.
00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:07.659
But what I see happening now is much more people are talking about it.
00:47:08.059 --> 00:47:19.420
Vanderlee is a powerhouse, and she seems to have a lot of connection in legislatures around the country, and I think it's taking it to a different level.
00:47:20.219 --> 00:47:20.539
Yeah.
00:47:20.860 --> 00:47:23.900
I am hopeful that things are going to change.
00:47:24.940 --> 00:47:26.059
And I think we all are.
00:47:26.219 --> 00:47:30.059
I mean, we have nothing else, nothing else we can do, right?
00:47:30.219 --> 00:47:39.500
Then be hopeful that you know these people who are out on the battlefield fighting for these can actually make some changes.
00:47:39.820 --> 00:47:44.460
I wrote a book called Yes, You Can Recover, What I Used to Help Myself.
00:47:44.539 --> 00:47:54.139
And some, you know, when I went, I was out of uh prison or out of jail, uh, my brain was not really functioning very well.
00:47:54.300 --> 00:47:58.940
I had definitely PTSD, Karen Hoffer helped me.
00:47:59.659 --> 00:48:04.619
But then I went to a dance class learning tango.
00:48:05.019 --> 00:48:15.820
Tango is a very difficult uh dance to learn, and actually it's a therapeutic dance, especially for Parkinson's and PTSD.
00:48:16.860 --> 00:48:24.860
And I remember when a step would get difficult, my teacher would look at me and say, Hey, come back here.
00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:31.179
Because every time something was difficult, I was just dissociating, I wasn't there.
00:48:31.579 --> 00:48:37.980
And it kind of forced me to you know, by learning tango, to stay present.
00:48:38.940 --> 00:48:42.460
And nobody thinks about doing something like that, but it's pretty simple.
00:48:42.619 --> 00:48:45.579
Well, not simple, but it's one thing you can do.
00:48:45.820 --> 00:48:46.940
And it's interesting.
00:48:47.260 --> 00:48:55.340
And I never realized about you know eating healthy food, you don't because if you're under stress, you don't want junk food in your system.
00:48:56.380 --> 00:49:00.219
And then uh I learned uh emotional freedom technique.
00:49:00.380 --> 00:49:03.579
I had done imagery for years, so I was using that.
00:49:03.820 --> 00:49:10.300
And I remember when I was in uh in jail there, I had been transferred to California.
00:49:10.539 --> 00:49:17.260
So going outside was going on the top of the jail, and I was I could walk 52 steps one way.
00:49:17.420 --> 00:49:27.260
I would walk 52 steps one way, 52 step, and I was doing this tapping technique and tapping on my fingers and doing qigong, and the guards were looking at me.
00:49:27.579 --> 00:49:28.539
What is she doing?
00:49:29.179 --> 00:49:32.059
Well, trying to survive, but yeah.
00:49:33.099 --> 00:49:42.380
So that would you know, keep getting your system back in balance, back in balance, but that's not like you can do it one time and you fine, it's constant.
00:49:42.860 --> 00:49:48.860
And uh, I used to panic every time I got something from the court, from my ex's attorney.
00:49:49.099 --> 00:49:57.099
I would panic for like two weeks, and then I would panic like two hours, and then I had my mind back and I could understand.
00:49:57.820 --> 00:50:34.460
And then I did also uh there was a oh, what is it, an app called Lumosity.com, and it's doing math equation, you know, following little things that forces your mind to do something and not think about what's happening, and it helps to restore uh you know, to restore a little bit of balance, and something too, you need to teach your mind to follow what you want to focus on and not go into awfulizing or catastrophizing.
00:50:34.940 --> 00:50:45.659
And some very easy things to do is you know, when you go for a walk, or even uh you in a car at a stop sign, you for 30 seconds you look at everything that's vertical.
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:52.940
You force your mind to look at the vertical, and then you force your mind to look at horizontal.
00:50:54.219 --> 00:51:02.940
And you may not be able to do it for 30 seconds, but during that time, all the angst and everything is happening is not there.
00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:08.699
And you training your mind to the thoughts that you wanna have.
00:51:09.179 --> 00:51:18.940
No, when I used to go to court, uh I would dissociate, so I wasn't there, but since I was my own attorney and not being there, it doesn't work in court.
00:51:19.179 --> 00:51:24.940
So I got the image that before going to court I'm gonna put on those lead shoes.
00:51:25.099 --> 00:51:27.099
It was just in my imagination.
00:51:27.260 --> 00:51:32.059
And the lead shoes helped me to stay present during the court.
00:51:33.739 --> 00:51:35.260
There's a lot of things like that.
00:51:35.340 --> 00:51:54.139
I probably know over a hundred different techniques that can be used to uh well, I wouldn't say you're thriving during it, but at least you're not going off the deep end, you're keeping yourself from having the symptoms get too physical, and eventually you can recover.
00:51:54.780 --> 00:51:58.300
So is that something that you do with your clients now?
00:51:58.619 --> 00:51:59.900
Um I like to learn a lot.
00:51:59.980 --> 00:52:10.139
I used to have a 10-week uh uh program that I did with people going to court, and some don't need 10 weeks and some need over a year.
00:52:10.380 --> 00:52:12.460
So now it just it depends.
00:52:12.699 --> 00:52:17.900
What I like to do if enough people are interested is just do like we had that support group.
00:52:18.139 --> 00:52:22.380
Because we're all going through the same thing, so why not work together?
00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:29.739
And um yeah, just getting ready for court after court.
00:52:29.900 --> 00:52:37.980
You know what I noticed is with my clients, they could not make a separation between a fact and an emotion.
00:52:38.219 --> 00:52:43.099
I would ask, you know, what happened, and they would get all emotional.
00:52:43.340 --> 00:52:43.980
And Dr.
00:52:44.139 --> 00:52:55.179
Karenhoffer came up with the debriefing circle, which I've been using a little differently, but you start by making a circle and give a title to what happened that day.
00:52:55.260 --> 00:52:57.659
I went to court on that day or something.
00:52:57.900 --> 00:53:04.460
Then you make another circle around it and you separate it, and you write just the facts.
00:53:04.619 --> 00:53:07.099
And that is difficult for many people.
00:53:07.340 --> 00:53:11.340
The fact is I had to be in court at such and such a time.
00:53:11.579 --> 00:53:12.780
That was the judge.
00:53:13.019 --> 00:53:14.780
These are the people that were present.
00:53:14.940 --> 00:53:17.739
There's no emotion there, just facts.
00:53:17.900 --> 00:53:28.139
And having to separate the facts from the emotions, and then we do another circle around it, and uh okay, there you can talk about the emotion.
00:53:28.219 --> 00:53:29.820
How do you feel about it?
00:53:30.300 --> 00:53:34.619
You know, I was angry, I was frustrated, I was hopeless.
00:53:35.099 --> 00:53:38.699
And then another th circle is what have you lost?
00:53:39.019 --> 00:53:45.420
Well, I lost my home, I lost my credit card, I lost credibility, I lost my job.
00:53:46.059 --> 00:53:51.019
And then the last circle is just the one thing is where is that trauma located in your body?
00:53:51.179 --> 00:53:57.260
And I use the EFTs, the tapping techniques on everything, and it's really helpful.
00:53:58.940 --> 00:54:00.699
I've I've learned a little bit about that.
00:54:00.860 --> 00:54:02.699
Can you just briefly quick go with that?
00:54:02.940 --> 00:54:05.420
Go through what EFTS briefly.
00:54:05.659 --> 00:54:06.619
Emotional fear.
00:54:06.860 --> 00:54:07.340
I know, sorry.
00:54:07.820 --> 00:54:13.260
The idea is what happens to you impacts the energy system that we have in our body.
00:54:13.739 --> 00:54:16.300
And you've heard about acupuncture.
00:54:17.099 --> 00:54:21.820
You know, instead of putting needles, we tap with our fingers.
00:54:22.780 --> 00:54:34.619
So, you know, this awful thing happened, this awful thing happened, this awful thing happened, this awful thing happened, this awful thing happened, this awful thing happened.
00:54:34.780 --> 00:54:40.219
And there either you say, you know, this awful thing happened, or how did it make me feel?
00:54:40.539 --> 00:54:41.739
I was so angry.
00:54:41.900 --> 00:54:55.659
And then you go again, you know, I was so angry, I was frustrated, and that kind of frees your energy system, your emotions on the moment, and it's less likely to impact your physical.
00:54:55.739 --> 00:54:57.739
That's you know my belief on that.
00:54:57.980 --> 00:55:09.980
Because people that end up with immune problems or all kinds of health things, you can go layer by layer, layers, remove what happened, and they get better.
00:55:10.300 --> 00:55:18.300
So instead of you know waiting till you're very sick, just you know, put a stop to that.
00:55:19.340 --> 00:55:22.300
And again, it's you know, what's happening is not your fault.
00:55:22.460 --> 00:55:23.980
I was looking for two years.
00:55:24.219 --> 00:55:27.019
What did I do to get that on me?
00:55:27.179 --> 00:55:33.260
But you know, maybe you're a strong person and um you're there to help others.
00:55:33.579 --> 00:55:34.460
Who knows?
00:55:34.940 --> 00:55:39.820
Don't go too much into the why did this happen to me because it's not very helpful.
00:55:40.300 --> 00:55:46.940
It's more okay, how can you use this to be strong, to make a difference, to help my children, to help others.
00:55:47.179 --> 00:55:51.980
So if somebody wanted to use your services, how do they get in touch with you?
00:55:52.539 --> 00:55:59.260
Uh well, you get on my um my website and uh you can contact me.
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:01.579
I'll talk with you for 20, 30 minutes.
00:56:01.659 --> 00:56:04.619
And I think the first time we talked, we talked for an hour.
00:56:06.219 --> 00:56:14.699
So uh, you know, I put 20 minutes and then sometimes I extend it, and we just talk and see, you know, how I can help you.
00:56:14.940 --> 00:56:30.780
And if you want to know more, uh you go on my website, uh healthwisdomacademy.com, and you can put forward slash PTSD-LAS if you want to learn more about uh legal abuse.
00:56:31.019 --> 00:56:43.739
And at the bottom of that page, that will lead you to another page where I made a lot of videos for an organization that doesn't exist any longer, but uh the idea about LAS still stays.
00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:49.260
So, you know, that helps you what's going on in court, how you may prepare.
00:56:49.500 --> 00:56:49.820
Yes.
00:56:50.219 --> 00:57:01.500
And and I'm excited because you and I are also going to eventually do another podcast episode for the Legal Abuse Explained podcast, specifically on legal abuse syndrome.
00:57:01.659 --> 00:57:05.659
So that will be um an exciting episode to learn more.
00:57:05.980 --> 00:57:10.780
You mentioned a lot of books that had helped you, and you have your book.
00:57:11.019 --> 00:57:20.059
Are there any other books that you would recommend for listeners who are going through varying degrees of the legal system parental alienation?
00:57:20.539 --> 00:57:24.300
The legal abuse syndrome by Karen Hoffer will help you.
00:57:24.619 --> 00:57:28.380
Uh the books by what was her name?
00:57:28.539 --> 00:57:28.940
Evans.
00:57:29.179 --> 00:57:30.139
What was her first name?
00:57:30.380 --> 00:57:34.219
All the books from Londie Bancroft have been very helpful to me.
00:57:34.380 --> 00:57:44.380
And this one, Patricia Evans, that was verbal abuse, that's the one I read and said, this woman must have been in my living room because it's just amazing.
00:57:44.539 --> 00:57:47.900
She knows what he said, what I said, and the whole dynamic.
00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:50.699
So for verbal abuse was an amazing book.
00:57:51.340 --> 00:57:53.739
And she has I bought all her books eventually.
00:57:53.980 --> 00:57:54.219
Okay.
00:57:54.460 --> 00:58:10.699
Okay, so uh in closing, uh, there's I know you have so much to tell any victims or survivors or other listeners out there, but uh is there any takeaway or any lasting words of encouragement or wisdom you would like to leave?
00:58:11.420 --> 00:58:13.659
The nightmare will have an end.
00:58:14.539 --> 00:58:23.179
You know, hang in there, don't commit suicide, which somebody said is a temporary, it's a final solution to a temporary problem.
00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:28.460
So, yeah, things will get brighter.
00:58:28.699 --> 00:58:37.739
And as more of us work together, and maybe with Bandili, I don't know, maybe we can change a system and protect our children.
00:58:39.099 --> 00:58:40.539
Thank you so much.
00:58:40.780 --> 00:58:43.980
Well, thank you for having me and for the chat.
00:58:44.300 --> 00:58:45.579
Yes, I appreciate it.
00:58:45.659 --> 00:58:52.300
And I am looking forward to because I think we have a lot more to talk about, I'm looking forward to more episodes on this podcast and others.
00:58:53.579 --> 00:58:53.980
All right.
00:58:54.139 --> 00:58:54.460
Okay.
00:58:56.219 --> 00:58:57.340
Thank you again, Dr.
00:58:57.420 --> 00:59:01.579
Danielle, for joining me today, and thank you, Warriors, for listening.
00:59:01.820 --> 00:59:07.579
I've included the links Danielle was referring to as well as her one in three profile in the show notes.
00:59:07.820 --> 00:59:10.940
I will be back next week with another episode for you.
00:59:11.179 --> 00:59:13.340
Until then, stay strong.
00:59:13.420 --> 00:59:18.780
And wherever you are on your journey, always remember you are not alone.
00:59:21.820 --> 00:59:28.460
Find more information, register as a guest, or leave a review by going to the website onein3podcast.com.
00:59:28.699 --> 00:59:33.019
That's the number one I and the number three podcast.com.
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