March 17, 2026
112-Male Victims of Domestic Violence: Coercive Control, Faith, and a Survivor’s Story with Tom Snow
Abuse rarely shows up as one clear event. More often, it’s a pattern of power and control that changes shape over time and can hide behind family roles, church culture, or a perfect public image. I’m Ingrid, and in this conversation Tom shares how that pattern followed him from childhood into adulthood, and what it took to finally name it, survive it, and start rebuilding a life that feels safe.
Tom takes us back to being a teenager desperate to please a distant father, experimenting with asbestos, and then carrying unbearable guilt after his mother dies of cancer. From there, the story turns darker: a medical letter burned in a fireplace, a shocking life insurance policy, and a spiral into anger, addiction, and suicidal planning. He also describes a faith-centered breakthrough that brought peace and a dramatic physical change that reshaped how he saw his future.
We then unpack years of intimate partner violence against a man: public charm versus private cruelty, constant accusations, therapy used as a weapon, and the danger that spikes when someone decides to leave. We talk about the ripple effects on kids, the confusion that keeps families stuck, and how spiritual abuse and leadership control can retraumatize someone who’s already been through too much. If you’re looking for stories and language around domestic violence, coercive control, male victims of abuse, trauma recovery, and spiritual manipulation, this one goes there with honesty and hard-earned clarity.
Subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next, and if this resonated, share it with someone who needs it and leave a rating and review to help more survivors find the show.
Tom’s Links:
https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/tom-snow/
https://just2beclear1.substack.com/t/podcasts
https://www.instagram.com/just2beclear1
https://www.facebook.com/just2beclear
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DX2GZ9ZZ
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FCJ2Z2LN
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
- Send your emails to 1in3podcast@gmail.com
- Follow on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @1in3podcast
- Check out the website https://www.1in3podcast.com/
Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
00:00 - Welcome And What Abuse Is
01:39 - Chasing Approval With A Dangerous Invention
05:08 - Loss, Guilt, And A Secret Tumor
08:15 - A Father’s Betrayal And A Suicide Plan
12:36 - Faith Breakthrough And Sudden Healing
15:32 - Life Inside A Violent Marriage
26:08 - Leaving Safely When Control Escalates
33:45 - Children, Foster Care, And Generational Trauma
46:22 - Spiritual Manipulation And Church Power
49:52 - Books, Links, And Listener Resources
51:10 - Hope, Healing, And Final Takeaways
WEBVTT
00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.660
Hi Warriors, welcome to one in three.
00:00:25.740 --> 00:00:26.620
I'm your host, Ingram.
00:00:27.339 --> 00:00:35.820
Domestic abuse can spill up in many forms: childhood abuse, intimate partner violence, and even spiritual manipulation, to name a few.
00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:40.299
But at its core, it's always about power and control.
00:00:40.859 --> 00:00:44.299
My guest today survived all three.
00:00:44.700 --> 00:00:51.500
This story reveals the patterns, the impact, and ultimately the hope that follows.
00:00:51.739 --> 00:00:53.420
Please welcome Tom.
00:00:54.219 --> 00:00:54.939
Hi, Tom.
00:00:55.019 --> 00:00:56.219
Welcome to One and Three.
00:00:56.299 --> 00:00:57.899
Thank you for joining me today.
00:00:58.299 --> 00:00:59.820
Thank you for having me.
00:01:00.299 --> 00:01:02.619
So we have quite a story.
00:01:02.780 --> 00:01:07.099
I guess it's it's almost multiple stories all rolled into one.
00:01:07.659 --> 00:01:13.900
But before we get into all of that, could you please just share a background with us so we can get to know you a little bit?
00:01:14.539 --> 00:01:15.099
Sure.
00:01:15.979 --> 00:01:24.620
Well, um I was, you know, raised in regular denominational churches.
00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:38.140
Um and at age 14 to 16, I faced life-threatening situations that that didn't help because I hadn't really met the Lord yet in a personal way.
00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:42.700
And um at 14, I was doing experiments.
00:01:42.939 --> 00:01:45.739
I was uh playing around with asbestos.
00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:55.180
This is back in the 60s, and I'd study, you know, in school we learned about the dangers of asbestos, and the scientific and medical medical community knew.
00:01:55.739 --> 00:02:01.900
But uh I looked at that and I said, hey, aren't car brake shoes made of asbestos?
00:02:02.219 --> 00:02:05.980
And you know, I looked at that problem and I said, you know what?
00:02:06.060 --> 00:02:07.739
I'm gonna create a solution.
00:02:07.819 --> 00:02:09.259
I'm gonna create an invention.
00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:10.780
I was in school.
00:02:11.019 --> 00:02:14.860
I wanted to have, I had the ego and pride.
00:02:15.019 --> 00:02:23.500
I wanted to win my school science fair all the way up to State Science Fair, and really to part big part of it was I had to please my father.
00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:29.340
My father and mother, no one in the family, I had two older brothers, showed love.
00:02:29.500 --> 00:02:30.620
My mother did.
00:02:30.780 --> 00:02:33.180
She was the only source of love, right?
00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:35.419
But I mean, my father and brothers, no.
00:02:35.900 --> 00:02:40.780
And my father, if he wasn't angry at you, then you knew you were loved.
00:02:40.939 --> 00:02:50.699
And but my father was a double major engineer, and you know, I he always had to prove to him that I was worthy.
00:02:50.860 --> 00:02:53.099
He didn't take you fishing, didn't play ball.
00:02:53.340 --> 00:02:55.580
You don't get kudos from that.
00:02:55.740 --> 00:03:05.099
You get I had to sit at the kitchen table and every open waking hour study math and engineering at his hand.
00:03:05.419 --> 00:03:09.099
Um, that's but that's how you got your father's attention, right?
00:03:09.180 --> 00:03:10.699
You do what you got to do.
00:03:11.099 --> 00:03:16.460
And so, you know, now I had a chance to create this invention.
00:03:16.699 --> 00:03:24.219
Uh my father had patent, you know, inventions, and I wanted to get do mine and compete against him.
00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:37.979
So uh, but I saw this problem and I designed a system that would go around each brake drum area of each wheel.
00:03:38.139 --> 00:03:48.620
And as you drove down the road, the wind would blow through, it'd be a sealed environment, pick it up and put it into a bag in the back that could be disposed of.
00:03:48.939 --> 00:03:53.659
So I created the design, I built the unit.
00:03:54.139 --> 00:03:58.460
Uh, you can't test it with sawdust because sawdust isn't weigh the same.
00:03:58.539 --> 00:04:05.500
So I went to the brake shops, and they would have tons of brake dust laying all over the shop.
00:04:05.740 --> 00:04:09.500
Asked if I can have it, they're like, here's a broom, have at it.
00:04:09.659 --> 00:04:13.419
Take as much as you want, because it was just a mess they're gonna have to clean up.
00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:17.740
And so I run it through my system and prove that the system worked.
00:04:18.139 --> 00:04:21.980
And of course, in the beginning, it wasn't very sealed or perfect.
00:04:22.139 --> 00:04:29.419
So I'd have mounds of asbestos dust flying in the air while I'm proving that I can gather it out of the system.
00:04:30.460 --> 00:04:35.980
So uh my mother and father worked 16-hour days.
00:04:36.139 --> 00:04:45.019
She'd come downstairs in the basement where I had my creation, and I'd be showing it to her all proud, and she would just cheer, she was my cheerleader.
00:04:45.339 --> 00:04:51.100
And, you know, that was all great until a year later when she gets cancer.
00:04:51.819 --> 00:04:55.259
And the cancer riddles through her whole body.
00:04:55.500 --> 00:05:02.620
She has a hysterectomy, a double massectomy, it goes into her lymph nodes, settles into her liver, and she dies.
00:05:03.579 --> 00:05:13.819
And now, all of a sudden, my state science fair win, my ego of an invention that was patent pending, didn't mean a thing.
00:05:14.060 --> 00:05:25.180
Pleasing my father didn't mean a thing, because I had the guilt of the world that I had just killed my mother, that it was my fault playing with asbestos dust.
00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:35.899
You know, my ego was so big, and having to please my father was so important that I didn't think about the ill effects that would happen to my mother.
00:05:36.620 --> 00:05:45.259
About a month later, I noticed a rock hard tumor about the size of a walnut in my gut, in my abdomen.
00:05:45.579 --> 00:05:53.259
And I knew because I knew because I knew I had cancer, that I had the same cancer in the liver.
00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:55.019
And you know what?
00:05:55.579 --> 00:05:58.540
I thought, this is I deserve it.
00:05:58.779 --> 00:06:05.980
You know, I've I'm the idiot who just killed my mother for my ego, my pride to please my father.
00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:07.899
So I deserve to die.
00:06:08.699 --> 00:06:11.180
And so I wouldn't tell anybody.
00:06:11.660 --> 00:06:19.100
And I just was gonna own it, die at 15, and that's it.
00:06:19.339 --> 00:06:27.500
Every time I'd come home from high school alone at home, my brothers are gone in college in the military, my father working 16-hour days.
00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:38.540
So I'd come home alone and I would sit in the family room, close my eyes, and I'd see a vision of cloud puffs going from one end of the horizon to the other.
00:06:38.779 --> 00:06:42.939
And on top of every cloud puff was a scene in life.
00:06:43.180 --> 00:06:49.899
And I'd watch those scenes in life, and the problem was they were all without me.
00:06:50.620 --> 00:06:57.899
About this point, that little tumor had grown about the size of a softball, hard as a rock in my abnum.
00:06:58.060 --> 00:06:59.019
I'm not going to tell anybody.
00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:01.259
It's probably six months later.
00:07:01.899 --> 00:07:06.939
And I wasn't going to, but I turned 16.
00:07:07.100 --> 00:07:08.620
I wanted a motorcycle.
00:07:08.779 --> 00:07:10.939
I wanted to get have my father get me one.
00:07:11.100 --> 00:07:15.579
And so I thought if I could ride and the wind's blowing in my face, I'd feel free.
00:07:15.899 --> 00:07:18.620
So to get that motorcycle, I had to get a job.
00:07:18.860 --> 00:07:21.019
Only way my father would pay for it.
00:07:21.259 --> 00:07:24.300
To do that, I had to get a food handler's permit.
00:07:24.939 --> 00:07:29.819
And only job available in 1970 was fast food.
00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:33.420
And so I went to the county clinic.
00:07:33.500 --> 00:07:37.660
I knew if to do that, that the county that my secret would be out.
00:07:37.980 --> 00:07:40.060
Because the county does two things.
00:07:40.220 --> 00:07:47.500
It does a full chest x-ray, and then it took a blood sample to make sure you don't have communicable disease.
00:07:47.740 --> 00:07:51.899
The next week, my food hands permit comes in the mail.
00:07:52.220 --> 00:07:57.420
And about a week later, I was came home from school one day.
00:07:57.579 --> 00:08:02.860
My father's car was in the drive, never home early, middle of the day.
00:08:03.100 --> 00:08:12.220
And I come walking in the door, but as I before I walked in, I knew that he had gotten the letter telling about my cancer.
00:08:12.860 --> 00:08:24.379
And as I walked in the door, I walked into the living room, and it's 80-some degree in April in Ohio, and my father's burning a fire in the fireplace.
00:08:24.699 --> 00:08:29.660
He loves fires in the fireplace, but that's a nighttime thing, you know, when it cools down.
00:08:29.899 --> 00:08:31.660
Middle of the day, 80 degrees.
00:08:31.819 --> 00:08:32.539
Uh-uh.
00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:39.180
And as soon as I walked in, he flips a letter in his hand into the fire.
00:08:40.059 --> 00:08:41.579
And I knew what it was.
00:08:41.740 --> 00:08:43.579
And I said, What are you doing?
00:08:44.139 --> 00:08:45.660
I just burning trash.
00:08:46.460 --> 00:08:46.940
Why?
00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:48.379
Why in the middle of the day?
00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:49.579
Why now?
00:08:49.740 --> 00:08:51.579
And oh, I just wanted to get rid of trash.
00:08:51.819 --> 00:08:53.579
We didn't have to burn trash.
00:08:53.980 --> 00:08:58.700
And uh I said, was that a letter in your hand?
00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:00.539
I got, no, no, no, no, no.
00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:04.779
And all of a sudden I'm thinking, you know, I've known for six or seven months.
00:09:04.940 --> 00:09:09.980
He just found out his wife, my mother, just died seven months ago.
00:09:10.139 --> 00:09:13.580
Now he just found out his son's youngest son is dying.
00:09:13.899 --> 00:09:15.980
Give him a minute, let him think about it.
00:09:16.139 --> 00:09:23.179
About a week later, I come walking in from school, my father's car is in the drive again, another car's in there.
00:09:23.419 --> 00:09:27.980
And I come walking in and he says, Tommy, come to the living room.
00:09:28.700 --> 00:09:31.179
And he had two insurance agents there.
00:09:31.340 --> 00:09:36.059
He takes out a multi-million dollar policy on me, life insurance policy.
00:09:38.539 --> 00:09:45.100
What in the H E double hockey sticks are you doing?
00:09:45.340 --> 00:09:47.419
Are you kidding me?
00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:50.620
Are you kidding me?
00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:59.419
So at this point, I'm like, I'm now full of anger, hating him.
00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:05.980
I mean, he didn't, yeah, it's one thing if he had maybe taken out a policy just big enough to bury me, you know?
00:10:06.379 --> 00:10:09.179
Few grand and maybe enough to buy a case of beer.
00:10:09.340 --> 00:10:09.980
Okay, fine.
00:10:10.220 --> 00:10:13.659
Multi-millions, that's what it's worth in today's money.
00:10:13.980 --> 00:10:18.220
Along the way in there, I met the Lord uh through all this trauma.
00:10:18.379 --> 00:10:24.620
I had a personal relationship with him, and I went haywire after my father did this for the next eight months.
00:10:24.940 --> 00:10:34.299
I sold everything I had and everything he had, and I bought a Harley in boxes, an old 49 Harley, and I built it into a chopper.
00:10:34.700 --> 00:10:36.139
I'm 16 years old.
00:10:36.299 --> 00:10:40.299
I turned into a hippie scuzzball uh gang writer.
00:10:40.379 --> 00:10:44.460
I actually started writing with the Hells Angels on my chopper.
00:10:44.620 --> 00:10:47.740
I became the second biggest drinker in my school.
00:10:48.379 --> 00:10:59.179
So I I'm just I'm living with tremendous hate of myself, of my father, of the situation.
00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:04.779
And I literally was planning on blackmailing him.
00:11:05.019 --> 00:11:08.940
My real plan was I was gonna drive to the Grand Canyon.
00:11:09.019 --> 00:11:12.059
I wasn't just driving to California.
00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:18.139
I was stopping at the Grand Canyon because my plan was I was gonna drive it off.
00:11:18.220 --> 00:11:31.340
I was gonna pull an evil can evil, and I was gonna drive it off to my death because I not only deserve to die, but I want, if I'm gonna die, I just want to choose how I go.
00:11:31.659 --> 00:11:41.340
So now I'm not only a rage-filled biker, teenage alcoholic, I'm also suicidal.
00:11:41.659 --> 00:12:00.940
My plan was also, the devious plan would be to have written a letter, tucked it inside my clothes, pinned it in there, so that when they picked up the pieces at the bottom, the letter would tell about my father's insurance fraud, and he'd lose the whole payout.
00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:04.299
But the third pain is I wanted him to go to jail.
00:12:04.539 --> 00:12:07.740
I mean, that's how much hate and anger and rage I was full of.
00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:12.860
So wonderful story in there.
00:12:13.179 --> 00:12:30.299
Well, at the end of eight months, I was sitting there with my biker buddy gang one night, and we were drinking bottle after bottle of cheap wine, and we got into discussions, that's normal, but we got into a spiritual discussion, which wasn't normal.
00:12:30.539 --> 00:12:36.620
I told him my story, and I said, I asked the Lord to come my life, and he didn't.
00:12:37.340 --> 00:12:46.539
And in the moment I said that, something inside of me broke loose, and I knew I was wrong.
00:12:46.860 --> 00:13:02.139
And I all of a sudden, the Lord, the Holy Spirit, and somehow it broke through all my hatred, anger, guilt, broke past that, and all of a sudden I had the peace of God that was beyond comprehension, and I knew his love.
00:13:02.379 --> 00:13:11.340
And all of a sudden, I was sobered, and I knew what I was saying was wrong, and my life changed from that day forward.
00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:19.100
And uh I was telling everybody about the love of God.
00:13:19.259 --> 00:13:20.860
So that was my change.
00:13:20.940 --> 00:13:22.779
It was in the charismatic move.
00:13:22.940 --> 00:13:26.940
I was in there from 71 to 77 when it ended.
00:13:27.100 --> 00:13:29.980
I actually knew I was dying all along, right?
00:13:30.139 --> 00:13:33.179
Now I knew where I was going and I was no longer afraid.
00:13:33.500 --> 00:13:40.299
So we I was riding home one night on my motorcycle and talking to the Lord just like normal.
00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:49.100
And as I was riding home, the Lord said, Well, do you see in 1 Peter, where I said, by his wounds you were healed?
00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:50.299
And I went, Yeah.
00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:52.620
He says, Would you like that healing?
00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:55.899
I went, eh, I don't care.
00:13:56.059 --> 00:13:57.259
I'm nonchalant.
00:13:57.340 --> 00:13:58.379
Like I'm ready to go home.
00:13:58.539 --> 00:14:00.460
In that moment, I felt a change.
00:14:00.860 --> 00:14:14.059
And within 24 hours, the rock hard tumor that had grown from the size of the walnut to now it was larger than a football, hard as a rock in my abdomen, within 24 hours melded and disappeared.
00:14:14.299 --> 00:14:15.340
That's huge.
00:14:15.580 --> 00:14:18.299
I mean, exactly literally huge.
00:14:18.700 --> 00:14:21.500
And huge and it went away.
00:14:21.820 --> 00:14:22.460
Yeah.
00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:25.259
Well, okay.
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:34.220
So all of that has a really good background, and there's almost like foreshadowing in your own life as to what is to come.
00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:50.460
I think it's very common for individuals who have experienced some form of abuse to then end up in another situation where they are abused again, and it may be a different form of abuse, which is actually what you ended up encountering.
00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:56.779
I have a hist I'm fortunately, I have a history, and I guess the bad, the bad, looking for bad follows for bad.
00:14:56.860 --> 00:15:02.379
And I don't wasn't ever looking for it, I never looked for it, but seems like it always found me.
00:15:03.259 --> 00:15:08.379
Do you feel up to getting into a little bit of those those stories because there's more than one?
00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:09.340
Right.
00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:15.500
Well, the next one would be talking about my marriage, first marriage.
00:15:15.820 --> 00:15:40.059
Um, you know, I was she was a young lady in the same church, and we're all going through seeing the miracle power of God, and you know, we're both believers, but that doesn't preclude that people can have mental issues and they need help and treatment, and if they don't ask for it or get help, it's it's bad.
00:15:40.539 --> 00:15:50.379
And so, you know, I married her and we had four children, but most of my life with her was hell.
00:15:51.179 --> 00:16:09.659
Uh, I used to call her the Queen of Bees, uh I because I lived abuse 24-7, 365, um physical, verbal abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse.
00:16:10.460 --> 00:16:17.980
Um, and she did it in front of the kids, like, you know, they it didn't matter.
00:16:18.460 --> 00:16:29.899
And she was a uh, she would be, we used to have what we called Saturday night at the fights because every Saturday we'd be up almost all night fighting.
00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:31.419
And by the way, I hated fighting.
00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:32.940
I didn't want to fight.
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:37.179
And she would do, you know, do anything to make me fight.
00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:40.139
I would say, I'm not gonna fight, and I'd go lay down on the couch.
00:16:40.299 --> 00:16:49.500
She'd walk over with a 32-ounce glass of soda pop and ice and dump it all over my head to get me to get up and fight.
00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:55.179
She would physically hit me all the time.
00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:57.179
I wouldn't hit her back.
00:16:58.059 --> 00:17:02.379
And she would throw potted plants at me, and I mean monster pots.
00:17:02.539 --> 00:17:04.299
You know, we had a banana tree.
00:17:04.460 --> 00:17:07.340
She took a kitchen chair and threw it at me.
00:17:07.659 --> 00:17:09.659
And, you know, I was a pretty big guy.
00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:16.860
I'd knocked it off, but you know, you can only have so much fun, and I wasn't having it.
00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:25.259
And, you know, it was just mental abuse and always nagging, always accusing.
00:17:25.659 --> 00:17:30.779
I didn't never made enough money, even though I was an engineer at Bell Labs, AT ⁇ T Bell Labs.
00:17:30.940 --> 00:17:33.339
So, you know, she wanted me to get a second job.
00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:38.539
Well, instead of that, I could work overtime and get paid more, get paid double time.
00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:48.059
So I used to work 80 to 100 hour weeks for Bell Labs as an engineer, just so she had the money, so she wouldn't bitch more.
00:17:48.779 --> 00:17:55.740
And that still was not enough because then she would accuse me of, you're gone all the time, so you must be having affairs.
00:17:56.460 --> 00:18:03.500
Because I heard somewhere that if you think your husband's having an affair, then that's the truth because you thought it.
00:18:04.539 --> 00:18:17.259
I found out from one of my older daughters later years after I left my wife, that um she had hired a private detective to follow me.
00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:20.220
Because after being at Bell Labs, then I started my own business.
00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:30.140
And then I was working 80-hour weeks as a hardware and software designer, you know, running my own company, which I did for 45 years.
00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:35.019
And she that at that point knew I was having an affair.
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:40.619
So she would, you know, she hired a private detective to find out all my dirt.
00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:42.859
You know what the worst dirt was?
00:18:43.420 --> 00:19:06.220
Uh, my assistant pastor of the church we were in was uh worked the next building over in the office buildings, and we would go out every Wednesday for the Wednesday matinee movie because we would go grab Taco Bell and go grab a matinee because it was our our break for our sanity breaks, you know?
00:19:06.539 --> 00:19:14.460
And and so we were had a two-hour movie that we where we were at, and she's like, that was the worst dirt she could find.
00:19:15.019 --> 00:19:20.220
So, I mean, living under this mental abuse, and I took it and took it.
00:19:20.299 --> 00:19:24.700
We she said, you know, we need to go to counseling because it's all your fault.
00:19:25.099 --> 00:19:30.220
And if we go to counseling, the counselors are going to just deal with you.
00:19:30.700 --> 00:19:34.299
And I didn't like that thought, but I'm like, you know what?
00:19:34.539 --> 00:19:36.539
Fine, let's go to counseling.
00:19:36.700 --> 00:19:39.099
So I went to counseling and I didn't fight it.
00:19:39.339 --> 00:20:04.700
And she starts out and she's telling the counselors how horrid I am, and she's expecting them to jump all over me, and all of a sudden it changed, and all they did was focus on her, and they wouldn't stop focusing on her because they could see right through her, and she that's let then she's done with counseling because they don't know nothing.
00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:18.140
And everyone at church thought, you know, she's just the best thing since sliced bread and butter, because she puts on such Sunday smile, such the facade.
00:20:18.460 --> 00:20:32.700
And as we're going to church, as I told you, we had to have Saturday night the fights, and come in the morning as we're driving to church, she would, and even though I'm I'm a strong guy, but I'm not abusive.
00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:36.220
And she's just as strong-willed, and but she was abusive.
00:20:36.380 --> 00:20:47.180
As we're driving down the road, she would command me and the children that you are not to speak a word about what happens behind closed doors.
00:20:47.420 --> 00:20:52.940
And when we walk into church, you just smile, and everything is just Peachy King.
00:20:53.420 --> 00:20:56.460
And nobody knew the better.
00:20:57.019 --> 00:21:05.740
And actually, the assistant pastor that I used to go to movies with, we went wrote, we'd ride motorcycles together.
00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:14.059
And I would tell him of the abuse I went through, and he'd be like, you know, you just I don't see that.
00:21:14.220 --> 00:21:15.420
She is so nice.
00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:17.819
Yeah, all we do is see this nice person.
00:21:18.140 --> 00:21:21.819
And, you know, I just you probably have it kind of mixed up, Tom.
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:24.779
I mean, I everybody gets their perspective, right?
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:28.859
And here's a guy, he's my best friend, and he doesn't believe me.
00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:32.220
And so one day he drove out to my house.
00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:47.980
Uh, usually we'd meet somewhere, but he drove out there and it was out in the country, and he comes up and he comes in, and Kathy starts riddling me in front of him, something he'd never seen before.
00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:54.700
And she lets loose on why I should get to go motorcycle riding because she's stuck at home.
00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:56.539
Yeah, I let you have a life.
00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:59.740
You don't have to work, you know, outside the home.
00:21:59.980 --> 00:22:10.380
You know, we had children and foster children, and so I'd let her keep all the foster money to run for her own fun, and I'd pay the bills.
00:22:10.619 --> 00:22:22.460
And she just belittling me, and she did it in front of Chuck, and he saw for the first time who she really was, and he said, Tom, I don't know how in the hell you live with this.
00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:24.380
How have You lived with this.
00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:26.779
He says, I'm sorry, I didn't believe you.
00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:29.900
You know, I should have listened.
00:22:30.380 --> 00:22:33.180
And so that did she know that he was there?
00:22:33.339 --> 00:22:34.140
Did she see him?
00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:36.299
Oh, he was, yeah, he was right there.
00:22:36.380 --> 00:22:39.099
He came in to say hi to her.
00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:45.339
And she's sitting in the kitchen table, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm getting ready to leave with Chuck.
00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:47.180
She lost her cookie.
00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.660
00:00:25.740 --> 00:00:26.620
00:00:27.339 --> 00:00:35.820
00:00:36.060 --> 00:00:40.299
00:00:40.859 --> 00:00:44.299
00:00:44.700 --> 00:00:51.500
00:00:51.739 --> 00:00:53.420
00:00:54.219 --> 00:00:54.939
00:00:55.019 --> 00:00:56.219
00:00:56.299 --> 00:00:57.899
00:00:58.299 --> 00:00:59.820
00:01:00.299 --> 00:01:02.619
00:01:02.780 --> 00:01:07.099
00:01:07.659 --> 00:01:13.900
00:01:14.539 --> 00:01:15.099
00:01:15.979 --> 00:01:24.620
00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:38.140
00:01:38.700 --> 00:01:42.700
00:01:42.939 --> 00:01:45.739
00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:55.180
00:01:55.739 --> 00:02:01.900
00:02:02.219 --> 00:02:05.980
00:02:06.060 --> 00:02:07.739
00:02:07.819 --> 00:02:09.259
00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:10.780
00:02:11.019 --> 00:02:14.860
00:02:15.019 --> 00:02:23.500
00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:29.340
00:02:29.500 --> 00:02:30.620
00:02:30.780 --> 00:02:33.180
00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:35.419
00:02:35.900 --> 00:02:40.780
00:02:40.939 --> 00:02:50.699
00:02:50.860 --> 00:02:53.099
00:02:53.340 --> 00:02:55.580
00:02:55.740 --> 00:03:05.099
00:03:05.419 --> 00:03:09.099
00:03:09.180 --> 00:03:10.699
00:03:11.099 --> 00:03:16.460
00:03:16.699 --> 00:03:24.219
00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:37.979
00:03:38.139 --> 00:03:48.620
00:03:48.939 --> 00:03:53.659
00:03:54.139 --> 00:03:58.460
00:03:58.539 --> 00:04:05.500
00:04:05.740 --> 00:04:09.500
00:04:09.659 --> 00:04:13.419
00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:17.740
00:04:18.139 --> 00:04:21.980
00:04:22.139 --> 00:04:29.419
00:04:30.460 --> 00:04:35.980
00:04:36.139 --> 00:04:45.019
00:04:45.339 --> 00:04:51.100
00:04:51.819 --> 00:04:55.259
00:04:55.500 --> 00:05:02.620
00:05:03.579 --> 00:05:13.819
00:05:14.060 --> 00:05:25.180
00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:35.899
00:05:36.620 --> 00:05:45.259
00:05:45.579 --> 00:05:53.259
00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:55.019
00:05:55.579 --> 00:05:58.540
00:05:58.779 --> 00:06:05.980
00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:07.899
00:06:08.699 --> 00:06:11.180
00:06:11.660 --> 00:06:19.100
00:06:19.339 --> 00:06:27.500
00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:38.540
00:06:38.779 --> 00:06:42.939
00:06:43.180 --> 00:06:49.899
00:06:50.620 --> 00:06:57.899
00:06:58.060 --> 00:06:59.019
00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:01.259
00:07:01.899 --> 00:07:06.939
00:07:07.100 --> 00:07:08.620
00:07:08.779 --> 00:07:10.939
00:07:11.100 --> 00:07:15.579
00:07:15.899 --> 00:07:18.620
00:07:18.860 --> 00:07:21.019
00:07:21.259 --> 00:07:24.300
00:07:24.939 --> 00:07:29.819
00:07:30.060 --> 00:07:33.420
00:07:33.500 --> 00:07:37.660
00:07:37.980 --> 00:07:40.060
00:07:40.220 --> 00:07:47.500
00:07:47.740 --> 00:07:51.899
00:07:52.220 --> 00:07:57.420
00:07:57.579 --> 00:08:02.860
00:08:03.100 --> 00:08:12.220
00:08:12.860 --> 00:08:24.379
00:08:24.699 --> 00:08:29.660
00:08:29.899 --> 00:08:31.660
00:08:31.819 --> 00:08:32.539
00:08:32.860 --> 00:08:39.180
00:08:40.059 --> 00:08:41.579
00:08:41.740 --> 00:08:43.579
00:08:44.139 --> 00:08:45.660
00:08:46.460 --> 00:08:46.940
00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:48.379
00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:49.579
00:08:49.740 --> 00:08:51.579
00:08:51.819 --> 00:08:53.579
00:08:53.980 --> 00:08:58.700
00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:00.539
00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:04.779
00:09:04.940 --> 00:09:09.980
00:09:10.139 --> 00:09:13.580
00:09:13.899 --> 00:09:15.980
00:09:16.139 --> 00:09:23.179
00:09:23.419 --> 00:09:27.980
00:09:28.700 --> 00:09:31.179
00:09:31.340 --> 00:09:36.059
00:09:38.539 --> 00:09:45.100
00:09:45.340 --> 00:09:47.419
00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:50.620
00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:59.419
00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:05.980
00:10:06.379 --> 00:10:09.179
00:10:09.340 --> 00:10:09.980
00:10:10.220 --> 00:10:13.659
00:10:13.980 --> 00:10:18.220
00:10:18.379 --> 00:10:24.620
00:10:24.940 --> 00:10:34.299
00:10:34.700 --> 00:10:36.139
00:10:36.299 --> 00:10:40.299
00:10:40.379 --> 00:10:44.460
00:10:44.620 --> 00:10:47.740
00:10:48.379 --> 00:10:59.179
00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:04.779
00:11:05.019 --> 00:11:08.940
00:11:09.019 --> 00:11:12.059
00:11:12.220 --> 00:11:18.139
00:11:18.220 --> 00:11:31.340
00:11:31.659 --> 00:11:41.340
00:11:41.659 --> 00:12:00.940
00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:04.299
00:12:04.539 --> 00:12:07.740
00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:12.860
00:12:13.179 --> 00:12:30.299
00:12:30.539 --> 00:12:36.620
00:12:37.340 --> 00:12:46.539
00:12:46.860 --> 00:13:02.139
00:13:02.379 --> 00:13:11.340
00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:19.100
00:13:19.259 --> 00:13:20.860
00:13:20.940 --> 00:13:22.779
00:13:22.940 --> 00:13:26.940
00:13:27.100 --> 00:13:29.980
00:13:30.139 --> 00:13:33.179
00:13:33.500 --> 00:13:40.299
00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:49.100
00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:50.299
00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:52.620
00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:55.899
00:13:56.059 --> 00:13:57.259
00:13:57.340 --> 00:13:58.379
00:13:58.539 --> 00:14:00.460
00:14:00.860 --> 00:14:14.059
00:14:14.299 --> 00:14:15.340
00:14:15.580 --> 00:14:18.299
00:14:18.700 --> 00:14:21.500
00:14:21.820 --> 00:14:22.460
00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:25.259
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:34.220
00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:50.460
00:14:50.779 --> 00:14:56.779
00:14:56.860 --> 00:15:02.379
00:15:03.259 --> 00:15:08.379
00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:09.340
00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:15.500
00:15:15.820 --> 00:15:40.059
00:15:40.539 --> 00:15:50.379
00:15:51.179 --> 00:16:09.659
00:16:10.460 --> 00:16:17.980
00:16:18.460 --> 00:16:29.899
00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:31.419
00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:32.940
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:37.179
00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:40.139
00:16:40.299 --> 00:16:49.500
00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:55.179
00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:57.179
00:16:58.059 --> 00:17:02.379
00:17:02.539 --> 00:17:04.299
00:17:04.460 --> 00:17:07.340
00:17:07.659 --> 00:17:09.659
00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:16.860
00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:25.259
00:17:25.659 --> 00:17:30.779
00:17:30.940 --> 00:17:33.339
00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:38.539
00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:48.059
00:17:48.779 --> 00:17:55.740
00:17:56.460 --> 00:18:03.500
00:18:04.539 --> 00:18:17.259
00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:20.220
00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:30.140
00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:35.019
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:40.619
00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:42.859
00:18:43.420 --> 00:19:06.220
00:19:06.539 --> 00:19:14.460
00:19:15.019 --> 00:19:20.220
00:19:20.299 --> 00:19:24.700
00:19:25.099 --> 00:19:30.220
00:19:30.700 --> 00:19:34.299
00:19:34.539 --> 00:19:36.539
00:19:36.700 --> 00:19:39.099
00:19:39.339 --> 00:20:04.700
00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:18.140
00:20:18.460 --> 00:20:32.700
00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:36.220
00:20:36.380 --> 00:20:47.180
00:20:47.420 --> 00:20:52.940
00:20:53.420 --> 00:20:56.460
00:20:57.019 --> 00:21:05.740
00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:14.059
00:21:14.220 --> 00:21:15.420
00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:17.819
00:21:18.140 --> 00:21:21.819
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:24.779
00:21:25.019 --> 00:21:28.859
00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:32.220
00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:47.980
00:21:48.299 --> 00:21:54.700
00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:56.539
00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:59.740
00:21:59.980 --> 00:22:10.380
00:22:10.619 --> 00:22:22.460
00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:24.380
00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:26.779
00:22:27.180 --> 00:22:29.900
00:22:30.380 --> 00:22:33.180
00:22:33.339 --> 00:22:34.140
00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:36.299
00:22:36.380 --> 00:22:39.099
00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:45.339
00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:47.180