March 31, 2026
113 – Life After Abuse: Domestic Violence Survivors, Trauma, and Healing with Deonna Kay
Many domestic violence stories end with escape and a clean “happily ever after.” Real survivor experiences are often far more complex.
In this episode of 1 in 3, Ingrid speaks with author Deanna Kay about her debut novel The Measure of Enough and the real-world survivor experiences that shaped its story. The conversation explores why emotional scars can remain long after safety is rebuilt — and why honest representation of abuse in fiction matters for awareness, education, and empathy.
Discussion includes:
- Hidden forms of domestic violence and coercive control
- Emotional, verbal, physical, and sexual abuse beyond common stereotypes
- Early warning signs like isolation, manipulation, and control
- How abuse can remain invisible inside “perfect” families
- Supporting someone experiencing abuse without accusation
- Body image, eating disorders, and vulnerability in controlling relationships
- Writing, publishing, rejection, and telling survivor-centered stories responsibly
Set against a Texas backdrop, The Measure of Enough follows Casey, a young social worker confronting family secrets and misinformation — opening a broader conversation about perception, trauma, and healing.
Subscribe, share, and leave a rating to help more listeners find conversations that expand domestic violence awareness and survivor education.
Deonna’s Links:
https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/deonna-kay/
https://www.instagram.com/deonnakaybooks
https://www.facebook.com/deonnakayauthor
https://www.amazon.com/Measure-Enough-Deonna-Kay/dp/B0F4S887TC
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
- Send your emails to 1in3podcast@gmail.com
- Follow on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @1in3podcast
- Check out the website https://www.1in3podcast.com/
Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
00:00 - Welcome And Guest Introduction
01:33 - Deanna’s Background And Busy Life
02:28 - Plot Setup For The Measure Of Enough
05:08 - Why She Finally Wrote The Book
06:58 - Depicting Domestic Violence Honestly
09:28 - Types Of Abuse And Content Warnings
12:23 - Perception, Wealth, And Hidden Harm
17:03 - Red Flags Like Isolation And Control
19:18 - Eating Disorders And Body Image
23:03 - Writing Hurdles, Rejection, And Revision
29:33 - Beta Readers, Community, And Asking Help
34:18 - Where To Get The Book
WEBVTT
00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.660
Hi Warriors, welcome to One and Three.
00:00:25.740 --> 00:00:27.019
I'm your host, Ingrid.
00:00:27.500 --> 00:00:33.659
We all have our own stories to tell, and some of us even turn those stories into books.
00:00:33.980 --> 00:00:37.340
My guest today, Deanna, did just that.
00:00:37.980 --> 00:00:49.739
Her debut book, The Measure of Enough, draws from her own experiences and those of her friends to tell a powerful story that sheds light on domestic violence.
00:00:49.980 --> 00:00:51.100
Here's Deana.
00:00:51.659 --> 00:00:52.460
Hi, Deanna.
00:00:52.700 --> 00:00:53.739
Thank you so much for joining me.
00:00:54.859 --> 00:00:56.060
Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:56.539 --> 00:00:57.659
How are you doing tonight?
00:00:57.899 --> 00:00:58.619
I'm doing great.
00:00:58.780 --> 00:00:59.659
I guess I gave it away.
00:00:59.740 --> 00:01:11.500
We're recording at night, but um, before we get into what we're talking about today, could you just give some of a background of yourself so the listeners can get to know you sound?
00:01:11.900 --> 00:01:13.020
Absolutely.
00:01:13.340 --> 00:01:20.620
So I was born and raised in Texas, and I am an Aggie.
00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:24.219
I am a single mom.
00:01:25.099 --> 00:01:31.019
I am a CPA by day, and which is my second profession.
00:01:31.260 --> 00:01:35.900
By first profession, I was a pediatric physical therapist.
00:01:36.060 --> 00:01:39.900
So I say I like to use both halves of my brain evenly.
00:01:40.060 --> 00:01:45.900
And and I am an animal lover and a volunteer addict.
00:01:46.219 --> 00:01:50.140
So those are some things about me, in addition to being an author.
00:01:50.379 --> 00:01:52.700
So I like to stay busy.
00:01:52.939 --> 00:01:53.900
Yeah, obviously.
00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:56.299
My brother-in-law is a longhorn.
00:01:56.379 --> 00:01:59.019
So I don't know if that are they That's okay.
00:01:59.099 --> 00:01:59.980
We can still be friends.
00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:00.299
Okay.
00:02:00.459 --> 00:02:00.620
Yeah.
00:02:00.700 --> 00:02:03.739
Those are complete, those are as polar opposite as you can get.
00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:04.140
Okay.
00:02:04.299 --> 00:02:04.620
Yes.
00:02:04.859 --> 00:02:05.180
All right.
00:02:05.420 --> 00:02:05.659
Okay.
00:02:05.819 --> 00:02:07.099
So you're an author.
00:02:07.420 --> 00:02:08.699
Let's talk about you have a book.
00:02:09.259 --> 00:02:10.139
The measure of enough.
00:02:11.019 --> 00:02:16.540
And do you want to I don't want I don't want you don't have to give everything away, but do you want to just talk a little bit about what it's about?
00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:17.579
What the book is about?
00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:20.219
Yes, absolutely.
00:02:20.459 --> 00:02:30.300
So the measure of enough is about a young adult woman who um she also the the entire story is set in Texas.
00:02:30.459 --> 00:02:33.259
And this young adult woman is a social worker.
00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:35.180
Her name is Casey Robinson.
00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:39.180
She comes from a very wealthy family in Texas.
00:02:39.419 --> 00:02:48.139
She is estranged from her parents and blames her mother for most of her childhood ills.
00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:54.939
And she gets a she gets a call to go back to her hometown of Glendale, Texas.
00:02:55.099 --> 00:03:08.620
And she really struggles with whether or not she should heed that call because again, she blames her mom largely for the for um her her childhood problems.
00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:25.979
And once she once she makes that decision, she really starts to unravel and uncover some childhood secrets and some family secrets that lead her down some roads that she really was not anticipating.
00:03:26.139 --> 00:03:32.379
It's really a story that's that's infused with.
00:04:16.060 --> 00:04:19.899
I know I don't know if you have time to think of what to put in there.
00:04:20.379 --> 00:04:27.180
You know, I had a client tell me one time that if you want something done, give it to a busy person.
00:04:27.340 --> 00:04:34.939
And I thought I thought that's pretty good advice because it just seems like busy people are the ones that get things done.
00:04:35.180 --> 00:04:39.660
So I thought I thought that was a pretty interesting way of looking at things.
00:04:39.899 --> 00:04:45.019
That is really interesting because I'm insanely busy and people people keep giving these things.
00:04:45.259 --> 00:04:46.779
People are always giving new things right there.
00:04:48.379 --> 00:04:50.779
I don't say no when I get it done.
00:04:51.339 --> 00:04:57.100
So I have always been a writer of sorts since I was young.
00:04:57.339 --> 00:05:06.060
I can remember in middle school entering little writing contests and writing short stories and things like that.
00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:10.860
So and I made a bucket list several years back.
00:05:10.939 --> 00:05:18.379
I mentioned I was a single mom, and several years back, my daughter and I, we we sat down together and and we made bucket lists.
00:05:18.540 --> 00:05:20.699
And this was on my bucket list.
00:05:20.939 --> 00:05:23.180
I'm going to write and publish a book.
00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:27.339
And this one took me about five years.
00:05:27.500 --> 00:05:35.899
Now, if you ever want to know what not to do when you write and publish a book, feel free to email me, call me, ask me.
00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:39.100
Um, I can tell you all the things not to do.
00:05:39.259 --> 00:05:42.699
Uh, because I did all of them, all wrapped up in one.
00:05:42.939 --> 00:05:45.019
But but yeah, I I I learned from it.
00:05:45.339 --> 00:05:47.980
The best lessons are from our own mistakes, right?
00:05:48.220 --> 00:05:57.180
So, but but yes, I hit them all and and it was it was definitely good learning experience for me.
00:05:57.259 --> 00:06:01.899
And it took a it took a great long time to to get this one right.
00:06:02.060 --> 00:06:16.379
But yeah, it was this one was a long, long process, and I was I was glad that it was had come to an end when I was able to put the end on it and and get it published and and all those sorts of things.
00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:25.660
And then I will tell you book number two is in editing right now, and that one was much, much faster because I I'm a pretty quick learner.
00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:26.699
So Okay.
00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:31.339
So it's safe to say you did not plan on taking five years to write the first one.
00:06:33.259 --> 00:06:41.980
Did you when you wrote the book, did you already have in mind what you wanted, a general idea of what you wanted the understory to be?
00:06:43.180 --> 00:06:43.660
I did.
00:06:43.819 --> 00:06:46.220
I took feel very strongly.
00:06:46.379 --> 00:06:55.019
So I am a domestic abuse survivor, and so I knew that I wanted the story to have that theme in it.
00:06:55.259 --> 00:07:08.939
I feel like that there are certain themes, certain stigmas, if you will, in our society that are either oversensationalized or underrepresented.
00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:13.660
Either way, they're not adequately and truthfully represented.
00:07:13.899 --> 00:07:29.579
So even though it's a work of fiction, I wanted to make sure that that particular part of the book and and that particular character when dealing with with those subjects was adequately depicted on the page.
00:07:29.819 --> 00:07:56.220
One thing, thing in particular that really bothers me when I see a character uh that deals with domestic violence in any realm is, you know, she's she struggled or he struggled or uh whatever, and we go down this road, and then at the end of 288 pages, we've wrapped it up in a nice little bow, and she lives happily ever after.
00:07:56.459 --> 00:07:59.819
Well, that's just not the way that abuse cases work.
00:08:00.220 --> 00:08:23.899
And, you know, I'm not telling you that you're forever scarred in as much as you think about it every single day for the rest of your life, and you can never have a productive life, and no, that's far from the truth, but it does shape part of who you are, and it does make you think about things differently.
00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:30.139
And so I I just wanted uh I wanted that to come through on the page.
00:08:30.300 --> 00:08:31.740
So that was important to me.
00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:36.299
I think that is important because it does domestic violence, it does leave a scar.
00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:42.139
And you know, wounds heal, scars are there, they remind you, they don't hurt anymore.
00:08:42.460 --> 00:08:44.860
But um, yeah, they're definitely still there.
00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:46.460
They're still a part of you.
00:08:47.019 --> 00:08:53.420
Were there any other themes that you really wanted to address in the book regarding domestic violence?
00:08:53.819 --> 00:08:54.460
Violence.
00:08:55.259 --> 00:09:00.379
Uh so um regarding domestic violence, you said, or besides domestic violence.
00:09:00.460 --> 00:09:00.940
What did you say?
00:09:01.179 --> 00:09:02.539
Actually, actually we'll do both.
00:09:02.779 --> 00:09:06.379
Do others about domestic violence and then besides domestic violence.
00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:07.340
Domestic violence.
00:09:07.659 --> 00:09:23.740
Yeah, so um there uh there are other types of uh abuse in there, and um, and there's a there's a um reader's guidance on the first page.
00:09:23.899 --> 00:09:31.179
So because I never would want anyone to be triggered by anything in there, so that was important to have the content guidance in there.
00:09:31.419 --> 00:09:39.259
But there's there's there's different sorts of domestic violence.
00:09:39.500 --> 00:09:45.980
So there's we've got emotional, we have physical, we have sexual, we have verbal.
00:09:46.299 --> 00:09:51.500
So one of the characters does experience multiple types.
00:09:51.740 --> 00:09:59.019
And if you read through a few different types of those are hit upon.
00:09:59.179 --> 00:10:21.340
And again, I just tried, it was very important to me to consult with other folks that I knew that had been survivors or and counselors and psychologists that I knew had worked with with folks that were survivors to make sure that does this read correctly?
00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:25.659
Hey, do you think this is an accurate representation of that?
00:10:25.740 --> 00:10:34.779
Uh, so that if it wasn't something that I personally had experienced, that I made sure that it was it was doing that subject justice.
00:10:35.019 --> 00:10:44.220
Okay, so so even though it is a fictional book, you pulled from real life experiences with other people plus yourself?
00:10:45.500 --> 00:10:45.820
Okay.
00:10:46.940 --> 00:10:50.779
So are the characters representative of anyone?
00:10:51.500 --> 00:10:59.659
If they are, you don't have to say specifically who they are, but did you pull personalities from people that you knew or no?
00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:00.379
Or no.
00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:01.899
Yes.
00:11:02.139 --> 00:11:17.259
So a couple of the characters who will they're not wholly so like Casey is not wholly a specific person, and her mother Ruth is not a specific person, and Aunt Jackie is not a specific person.
00:11:17.659 --> 00:11:36.059
But as you're reading through, if you're someone that knows me really well, I have had several folks that are close to me say, okay, in chapter such and such, this scene with Aunt Jackie, Aunt Jackie is acting just like so-and-so.
00:11:36.379 --> 00:11:40.379
You know, Bruce's personality is really reminding me of so-and-so.
00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:56.299
So uh I definitely pulled from uh about three different women that I felt like deserved to be represented in the in the okay.
00:11:56.539 --> 00:12:01.980
And why didn't you think it was um why did you choose to tell it from Casey's point of view?
00:12:03.019 --> 00:12:10.700
So originally uh the story was told from three different points of view.
00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:15.659
Uh there was Casey, there was Aunt Jackie, and there was Ruth.
00:12:16.379 --> 00:12:22.059
So it was it was a triplicate point of view novel.
00:12:22.940 --> 00:12:29.100
And then I I cut out one of them and it was told from two points of view.
00:12:29.419 --> 00:12:41.820
And then through the through the course of beta reading and editing and all like that, it seemed just to be a cleaner read if I told it just from a single point of view.
00:12:42.059 --> 00:12:44.779
So yeah, it was just a decision that I made.
00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:51.100
Do you think that you got more of those those themes that you were talking about with domestic violence?
00:12:51.179 --> 00:13:08.779
Do you think that they came through better by telling it from the daughter going back home and kind of witnessing how her what she believed her family life to be like just sort of unravel versus telling it from somebody else's perspective?
00:13:09.019 --> 00:13:09.740
Does that make sense?
00:13:10.059 --> 00:13:16.940
I do, I do, because really it's really it's her story and her perception of the story.
00:13:17.100 --> 00:13:27.500
And you know, we were also able to see how her perception influenced other folks, such as her best friend.
00:13:27.659 --> 00:13:36.139
She had also grown estranged from her best friend due to another another set of misinformation.
00:13:36.620 --> 00:14:11.659
So we we were able to see kind of how you know sometimes if you are if you are manipulated in within a certain situation, um, and you believe that person and you you put your faith in someone uh and that that faith is misplaced, then um it can do more damage in a relationship besides just between you and that one individual.
00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:16.299
It can have much further reaching effects than you ever knew.
00:14:16.539 --> 00:14:23.019
And you know, you're you're believing everyone's against you when maybe maybe they really weren't in the first place.
00:14:24.139 --> 00:14:39.179
I think I like that because perception is a huge part, it plays a huge part, right, in in domestic violence, because what's happening behind your closed doors does not look like what's happening out in public.
00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:47.820
So everybody else may have this perception of a perfect family at, you know, in your home versus what's really happening.
00:14:48.139 --> 00:14:58.620
And I think it's also important to bring to light the fact that, you know, Casey came from a very wealthy family, and her family was very wealthy.
00:14:58.779 --> 00:15:10.299
And there's still a fair number of folks out there that believe, you know, domestic abuse and domestic violence happen in your low-income families.
00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:13.500
That's what happens in the other neighborhoods.
00:15:13.820 --> 00:15:21.899
So, you know, and that's some of these high-profile cases have dispelled those rumors a little bit.
00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:26.220
I'm not saying that's a good thing, but I'm just saying that that has happened.
00:15:26.379 --> 00:15:43.259
But but I do still believe that there's a fair number of folks that think, oh well, only the, you know, only the poor folks, that's who beat their wives, or only the, you know, whatever, that's when that happens.
00:15:43.419 --> 00:15:47.419
It's not your, like you said, it's not your neighbor next door.
00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:50.940
It's not your the person that you work with at the bank.
00:15:51.179 --> 00:15:54.460
It's not your everyday person.
00:15:55.019 --> 00:16:00.139
And, you know, at the very least, in the very back of the book, there's some resources.
00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:15.820
And at the very least, my hope for putting those there is not so that everyone can become an armchair psychologist, but just that you can recognize some of the signs.
00:16:15.980 --> 00:16:20.139
And I always say, you know, if you if you see something, say something.
00:16:20.539 --> 00:16:23.820
So it it doesn't ever hurt.
00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:39.419
And or at the very least, you know, maybe maybe you want to spend one Saturday a quarter volunteering at the women's shelter or something, something along those lines, some way that you could get back.
00:16:39.820 --> 00:16:40.059
Right.
00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:50.860
And I I haven't completed the book, but I have read, um, I have started reading it, and there's a few parts where I was like, ooh, I wonder what's really happening, you know, like perception-wise.
00:16:51.580 --> 00:17:02.460
What are some of the signs that people may see and not necessarily recognize that they could be domestic violence in someone's.
00:17:02.860 --> 00:17:50.539
Yeah, so I think one of the biggest early signs that folks often miss, um, one of the red flags are if you know, if if you are continually say you you work in a place where you continually go once a month or once a quarter, you have uh evening get-together or a weekend get-together, and Sally Lou can't ever go because her husband doesn't like her going out after six o'clock, or her husband doesn't like her going out on the weekends.
00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:57.740
Well, that really indicates some level of control, it indicates some level of isolation.
00:17:57.980 --> 00:18:01.180
So, you know, may maybe have a conversation with her.
00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:04.700
Like, oh, are you guys always busy on the weekend?
00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:07.660
Or, you know, what did you do this weekend?
00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:19.259
Again, I'm not saying you say, Oh, well, obviously your husband is abusing you because he is controlling, but you know, maybe you want to ask another question or two.
00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:24.940
Maybe you want to see if she might or want to go out to dinner one-on-one.
00:18:25.420 --> 00:18:27.900
Maybe she maybe she just doesn't like crowds.
00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:28.940
I don't know.
00:18:29.740 --> 00:18:51.500
But, you know, once uh once there's an isolation kind of uh situation going on, um, you know, it's easier to I think it's easier to abuse and it's easier to control once you've taken away all of that person's friends.
00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:57.660
So that's something that, you know, studies have shown that you see a lot as one of those first first.
00:18:58.299 --> 00:18:59.019
Oh, definitely.
00:18:59.180 --> 00:19:02.299
And they can be very sneaky and how they isolate too.
00:19:02.380 --> 00:19:11.500
It may not be just a blatant don't go out with your friends, but it could be I wanted to spend the weekend together, us together, and not with someone else.
00:19:11.579 --> 00:19:14.059
And then they do it to your family too.
00:19:15.819 --> 00:19:21.420
So we talk we were talking about other non-domestic violence themes that were in your book.
00:19:21.500 --> 00:19:22.619
So what would those be?
00:19:22.940 --> 00:19:32.779
So there is one of the characters does struggle with eating disorders, and that's something that I personally uh have experience with.
00:19:33.099 --> 00:19:58.460
So I was able to draw from that and then again consult with an eating, an eating disorder specialist as well to get some additional information in terms of treatment centers and and things of that nature to kind of flesh out that character and that part of the that part of the that aspect of that.
00:19:59.660 --> 00:19:59.980
Okay.
00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:05.819
Was there a particular reason you wanted to throw like the body image and eating disorder part into there?
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:13.180
I feel like a lot of times that does go hand in hand um with controlling behavior.
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:24.460
Uh and um that's a that's an easy target, I think, for a lot of women, especially um, especially once we start to get older.
00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:28.940
So um, you know, I'm I I'm 51 this year.
00:20:29.099 --> 00:20:38.619
I just turned 51, but I know um, you know, like when I turned 50, that was a big milestone for me.
00:20:38.779 --> 00:20:41.900
I mean, that was the first birthday that bothered me ever.
00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:44.859
I'd never been bothered by a birthday before.
00:20:45.180 --> 00:20:49.980
And then 50 was uh it was a little depressing.
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:55.740
And I thought, gosh, I've probably got more years behind me than I do in front of me.
00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:59.660
And my daughter was like, that that's really depressing.
00:20:59.819 --> 00:21:00.619
Don't say that.
00:21:00.859 --> 00:21:07.339
And I'm like, well, I mean, just realistically, and I I think that's why it bothered me so much.
00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:12.460
But I said, you know, as women, we look at age differently.
00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:16.940
People say things about men, like they just they're aging so well.
00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:27.579
They're so they look so mature with their gray hair and they're, you know, and then the older we get, we're like, I mean, I can't even tell you what my natural color hair is anymore.
00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:28.140
I don't know.
00:21:28.299 --> 00:21:29.900
It could be purple for all I know.
00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:30.700
No idea.
00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:40.700
And so, you know, we we do everything in our power to cover up who we are naturally.
00:21:41.019 --> 00:21:49.420
We do Botox and we do hair color and we get things lifted and tucked and sucked in and all sorts of things.
00:21:49.579 --> 00:22:00.859
And so I think it's easy if you are female and you're with someone that's naturally controlling, that is such an easy target.
00:22:01.099 --> 00:22:05.259
So if you already have body image issues, that's so easy.
00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:14.859
Um and again, just natural aging, the older you get, the harder it is to lose weight.
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:26.460
The older you get, the harder it is to well, it's not hard, it's impossible to make things go back to the you know, gravity when they were when you were 20.
00:22:26.539 --> 00:22:27.900
That that is sudden work.
00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:29.660
Gravity sets in.
00:22:30.059 --> 00:22:35.420
So, you know, I I just I think they often go hand in hand.
00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:42.779
Did you use Texas just because of the familiarity of Texas for the setting?
00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:43.980
I did.
00:22:44.539 --> 00:22:51.420
And um I I really anticipate that all of my books will will be set in Texas.
00:22:51.579 --> 00:22:53.660
Yeah, I just I just like the idea of it.
00:22:53.980 --> 00:22:56.779
Are any of your characters going to go from book to book?
00:22:57.019 --> 00:23:03.019
They they did not from the so the first and the second are both standalone, I will tell you.
00:23:03.259 --> 00:23:43.099
But the second book does have another issue in it, which is something that I'm hoping to carry through is some type of societal or something I believe to be a an issue that I feel like as a society we don't understand, we misrepresent something along those lines let's uh let's actually talk about book writing for a little bit because I think a lot of survivors do turn to book writing because it's a therapeutic way to get their story out.
00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:51.339
And some individuals choose to do like a memoir but do you mind going into some of those hurdles that you you hit in those five years?
00:23:51.660 --> 00:24:09.019
No, absolutely so the biggest mistake I made and I I tell everyone this and it's funny looking back but this just shows how inexperienced I was I mean understand I'm an accountant so this was completely unfamiliar territory to me.
00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:31.099
I literally wrote the manuscript it was about two thirds as long as it is now understand it was from three points of view I wrote it put the end had no one else read it went to a writing conference and pitched it to some agents and they said oh gosh that sounds really interesting.
00:24:31.339 --> 00:24:32.460
Would you send it to us?
00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:49.579
Absolutely I will that's so I did yeah and they all sent me back rejection notices which is not uncommon because I mean people get hundreds of rejection notices before they ever get picked up by an agent.
00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:58.460
So in all of my infinite wisdom and I have very thick skin so I don't get my feelings hurt easily I don't anything.
00:24:58.619 --> 00:25:15.980
And so I said well let me just go ahead and look up all of the publishers agents that I can find with their email addresses and I'll start sending them out in groups of like 25.
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:19.099
So I sent them out to about a hundred.
00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:24.700
Again I say to you no changes I was not on a strong learning curve there.
00:25:24.940 --> 00:26:03.180
Just send them all out until finally I was telling a friend of mine who I had met along the way who had published a book and she said Deanna no no don't do that I said well already already did it and she was like well you you can't re-query an agent so you you can't you have to stop doing that and I said oh okay so you don't think maybe it's just they're not interested and she said no you you have to have other people read it and tell you what is wrong with it.
00:26:03.259 --> 00:26:05.339
Clearly there's something wrong with it.
00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:27.339
I was like oh hurtful okay so there was a there was so much wrong with it so I went back and spent about a year revising it and then I worked with an editor and then along the process I decided I really didn't want an actual I didn't want to be agented.
00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:28.539
There's nothing wrong with it.
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:43.819
There's just different paths for different people um so and then my and then in the process my mother passed away and so I took about a year off of that and and then got back on it again and then published it.
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:47.740
Yes it it was it was quite quite the challenge.
00:26:48.140 --> 00:26:56.460
When you sent it to beta readers did you choose who you wanted to choose your own I did some of both.
00:26:56.779 --> 00:27:11.339
So uh I chose um a few friends that um were in the industry and then I chose a couple of close friends that I knew even though they were friends they tell me the truth.
00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:25.500
And then I sent it to a company called the Spun Yarn and they do manuscript reading and they have forms that you which I read for them too so I I knew about them.
00:27:25.740 --> 00:28:00.539
And they then they send you back the three they'll send it to three of their beta readers and you don't get to choose you don't get to but they just the beta readers will fill out some parameters to say you know these are the types of manuscripts I'm interested in reading and then you kind of match they match your manuscript with what the interest of the reader is and then you get not only the reader's feedback but then you get an overall summary from the company.
00:28:01.259 --> 00:28:01.579
Okay.
00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:03.099
Were there any other challenges?
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:18.859
Would you parts of it were there's there's a couple of scenes that were a little bit that were a little emotional for me to write only because they were drawn from my own personal experience.
00:28:19.099 --> 00:28:34.779
But the rest of it I mean much of it was from other folks' experiences or you know just something that I concocted I kind of pieced things together and um you know and concocted it.
00:28:35.019 --> 00:29:33.420
So so yeah for anybody out there that who who may be thinking of starting a book would you suggest they do it would you suggest they take a class is there anything any first steps that you think would be beneficial for somebody yeah I mean I would I would always tell folks I am a big proponent of you'll you'll never regret what you don't try so um so you I mean you why not why not try it uh I mean I another thing that I learned along the way is I I I knew this about myself I absolutely hate to ask for help um I I am a I can do it myself kind of person and I really learned during this process to ask for help.
00:29:33.579 --> 00:29:43.900
I am part of a group that I acquired along the way or I was fortunate to find along the way called WFWA Women's Fiction Writers Association.
00:29:44.059 --> 00:29:50.220
And it's just exactly what it sounds like it's a big group of women who write women's fiction.
00:29:50.460 --> 00:30:37.019
And so uh in that group are the most lovely group of women from all over the world and so it's you know everyone's supporting everyone else and in that there's folks that are traditionally published folks that are published by small presses folks that are published independently um people that you have seen their names on bestseller lists folks that they have not been published yet just everywhere in the gamut but the point of that is if there's a question someone can answer it and almost certainly someone can help you through it.
00:30:37.180 --> 00:30:42.539
So one of the things that I am terrible at is technology.
00:30:42.940 --> 00:31:15.579
I'm very technologically challenged so in fact the staff at my office will just make all sorts of jokes about it because I'm like well why why can't we just write that down on a sticky note and use that I don't know why you all want me to send it to you in an email but so you know I thought well I really want to I really want to self-publish but my hesitation with this was I don't think I can do the formatting and be able to upload it like it needs to be done.
00:31:15.900 --> 00:31:34.779
And so I met this gal along the way about probably a year and a half ago she was like we we can do this and it's turned into the most lovely and amazing friendship story ever.
00:31:35.180 --> 00:31:50.380
We literally talk almost every day now and we're each other's critique partner and you know I I can read her stuff I'm an excellent proofreader and so you know we can we can help each other out in different ways.
00:31:50.619 --> 00:32:02.140
So but you you have to be able to you have to be able to be willing to ask for help you can't do it all on your own.
00:32:02.299 --> 00:33:44.539
I don't know that you necessarily have to take a class if you have a good understanding of the writing process but even if you do need to take a class that's okay too but if your goal is to write a book write a book just don't consider yourself a failure if you don't make the New York Times bestseller either make sure that you know what your goal is is your goal to write a book for yourself is your goal to write a book to say you did it or is your goal to write a book and sell a hundred thousand copies make sure you identify what that goal is I mean for me my book has my book has done fairly well and I'm happy with that but I just had a talk at the library one of the local libraries a couple of weeks ago and I said I'm gonna be honest I am happy with every copy that is purchased it thrills me to death but honestly I'm just as thrilled if somebody tells me I borrowed your copy from the library and then I recommended it to my friend who went and checked the book out from the library because for me the goal is for somebody to have gotten something out of the measure of enough and somebody to have read the book and found something in it that they related to or that touched their life or somehow they came out changed in some manner than they were when they started it.
00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:46.779
And that was a goal for me.
00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:25.660
00:00:25.740 --> 00:00:27.019
00:00:27.500 --> 00:00:33.659
00:00:33.980 --> 00:00:37.340
00:00:37.980 --> 00:00:49.739
00:00:49.980 --> 00:00:51.100
00:00:51.659 --> 00:00:52.460
00:00:52.700 --> 00:00:53.739
00:00:54.859 --> 00:00:56.060
00:00:56.539 --> 00:00:57.659
00:00:57.899 --> 00:00:58.619
00:00:58.780 --> 00:00:59.659
00:00:59.740 --> 00:01:11.500
00:01:11.900 --> 00:01:13.020
00:01:13.340 --> 00:01:20.620
00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:24.219
00:01:25.099 --> 00:01:31.019
00:01:31.260 --> 00:01:35.900
00:01:36.060 --> 00:01:39.900
00:01:40.060 --> 00:01:45.900
00:01:46.219 --> 00:01:50.140
00:01:50.379 --> 00:01:52.700
00:01:52.939 --> 00:01:53.900
00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:56.299
00:01:56.379 --> 00:01:59.019
00:01:59.099 --> 00:01:59.980
00:02:00.140 --> 00:02:00.299
00:02:00.459 --> 00:02:00.620
00:02:00.700 --> 00:02:03.739
00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:04.140
00:02:04.299 --> 00:02:04.620
00:02:04.859 --> 00:02:05.180
00:02:05.420 --> 00:02:05.659
00:02:05.819 --> 00:02:07.099
00:02:07.420 --> 00:02:08.699
00:02:09.259 --> 00:02:10.139
00:02:11.019 --> 00:02:16.540
00:02:16.939 --> 00:02:17.579
00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:20.219
00:02:20.459 --> 00:02:30.300
00:02:30.459 --> 00:02:33.259
00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:35.180
00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:39.180
00:02:39.419 --> 00:02:48.139
00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:54.939
00:02:55.099 --> 00:03:08.620
00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:25.979
00:03:26.139 --> 00:03:32.379
00:04:16.060 --> 00:04:19.899
00:04:20.379 --> 00:04:27.180
00:04:27.340 --> 00:04:34.939
00:04:35.180 --> 00:04:39.660
00:04:39.899 --> 00:04:45.019
00:04:45.259 --> 00:04:46.779
00:04:48.379 --> 00:04:50.779
00:04:51.339 --> 00:04:57.100
00:04:57.339 --> 00:05:06.060
00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:10.860
00:05:10.939 --> 00:05:18.379
00:05:18.540 --> 00:05:20.699
00:05:20.939 --> 00:05:23.180
00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:27.339
00:05:27.500 --> 00:05:35.899
00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:39.100
00:05:39.259 --> 00:05:42.699
00:05:42.939 --> 00:05:45.019
00:05:45.339 --> 00:05:47.980
00:05:48.220 --> 00:05:57.180
00:05:57.259 --> 00:06:01.899
00:06:02.060 --> 00:06:16.379
00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:25.660
00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:26.699
00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:31.339
00:06:33.259 --> 00:06:41.980
00:06:43.180 --> 00:06:43.660
00:06:43.819 --> 00:06:46.220
00:06:46.379 --> 00:06:55.019
00:06:55.259 --> 00:07:08.939
00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:13.660
00:07:13.899 --> 00:07:29.579
00:07:29.819 --> 00:07:56.220
00:07:56.459 --> 00:07:59.819
00:08:00.220 --> 00:08:23.899
00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:30.139
00:08:30.300 --> 00:08:31.740
00:08:31.980 --> 00:08:36.299
00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:42.139
00:08:42.460 --> 00:08:44.860
00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:46.460
00:08:47.019 --> 00:08:53.420
00:08:53.819 --> 00:08:54.460
00:08:55.259 --> 00:09:00.379
00:09:00.460 --> 00:09:00.940
00:09:01.179 --> 00:09:02.539
00:09:02.779 --> 00:09:06.379
00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:07.340
00:09:07.659 --> 00:09:23.740
00:09:23.899 --> 00:09:31.179
00:09:31.419 --> 00:09:39.259
00:09:39.500 --> 00:09:45.980
00:09:46.299 --> 00:09:51.500
00:09:51.740 --> 00:09:59.019
00:09:59.179 --> 00:10:21.340
00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:25.659
00:10:25.740 --> 00:10:34.779
00:10:35.019 --> 00:10:44.220
00:10:45.500 --> 00:10:45.820
00:10:46.940 --> 00:10:50.779
00:10:51.500 --> 00:10:59.659
00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:00.379
00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:01.899
00:11:02.139 --> 00:11:17.259
00:11:17.659 --> 00:11:36.059
00:11:36.379 --> 00:11:40.379
00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:56.299
00:11:56.539 --> 00:12:01.980
00:12:03.019 --> 00:12:10.700
00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:15.659
00:12:16.379 --> 00:12:22.059
00:12:22.940 --> 00:12:29.100
00:12:29.419 --> 00:12:41.820
00:12:42.059 --> 00:12:44.779
00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:51.100
00:12:51.179 --> 00:13:08.779
00:13:09.019 --> 00:13:09.740
00:13:10.059 --> 00:13:16.940
00:13:17.100 --> 00:13:27.500
00:13:27.659 --> 00:13:36.139
00:13:36.620 --> 00:14:11.659
00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:16.299
00:14:16.539 --> 00:14:23.019
00:14:24.139 --> 00:14:39.179
00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:47.820
00:14:48.139 --> 00:14:58.620
00:14:58.779 --> 00:15:10.299
00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:13.500
00:15:13.820 --> 00:15:21.899
00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:26.220
00:15:26.379 --> 00:15:43.259
00:15:43.419 --> 00:15:47.419
00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:50.940
00:15:51.179 --> 00:15:54.460
00:15:55.019 --> 00:16:00.139
00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:15.820
00:16:15.980 --> 00:16:20.139
00:16:20.539 --> 00:16:23.820
00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:39.419
00:16:39.820 --> 00:16:40.059
00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:50.860
00:16:51.580 --> 00:17:02.460
00:17:02.860 --> 00:17:50.539
00:17:50.700 --> 00:17:57.740
00:17:57.980 --> 00:18:01.180
00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:04.700
00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:07.660
00:18:07.900 --> 00:18:19.259
00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:24.940
00:18:25.420 --> 00:18:27.900
00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:28.940
00:18:29.740 --> 00:18:51.500
00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:57.660
00:18:58.299 --> 00:18:59.019
00:18:59.180 --> 00:19:02.299
00:19:02.380 --> 00:19:11.500
00:19:11.579 --> 00:19:14.059
00:19:15.819 --> 00:19:21.420
00:19:21.500 --> 00:19:22.619
00:19:22.940 --> 00:19:32.779
00:19:33.099 --> 00:19:58.460
00:19:59.660 --> 00:19:59.980
00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:05.819
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:13.180
00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:24.460
00:20:24.779 --> 00:20:28.940
00:20:29.099 --> 00:20:38.619
00:20:38.779 --> 00:20:41.900
00:20:42.220 --> 00:20:44.859
00:20:45.180 --> 00:20:49.980
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:55.740
00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:59.660
00:20:59.819 --> 00:21:00.619
00:21:00.859 --> 00:21:07.339
00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:12.460
00:21:12.700 --> 00:21:16.940
00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:27.579
00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:28.140
00:21:28.299 --> 00:21:29.900
00:21:30.140 --> 00:21:30.700
00:21:30.940 --> 00:21:40.700
00:21:41.019 --> 00:21:49.420
00:21:49.579 --> 00:22:00.859
00:22:01.099 --> 00:22:05.259
00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:14.859
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:26.460
00:22:26.539 --> 00:22:27.900
00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:29.660
00:22:30.059 --> 00:22:35.420
00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:42.779
00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:43.980
00:22:44.539 --> 00:22:51.420
00:22:51.579 --> 00:22:53.660
00:22:53.980 --> 00:22:56.779
00:22:57.019 --> 00:23:03.019
00:23:03.259 --> 00:23:43.099
00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:51.339
00:23:51.660 --> 00:24:09.019
00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:31.099
00:24:31.339 --> 00:24:32.460
00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:49.579
00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:58.460
00:24:58.619 --> 00:25:15.980
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:19.099
00:25:19.259 --> 00:25:24.700
00:25:24.940 --> 00:26:03.180
00:26:03.259 --> 00:26:05.339
00:26:05.740 --> 00:26:27.339
00:26:27.500 --> 00:26:28.539
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:43.819
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:47.740
00:26:48.140 --> 00:26:56.460
00:26:56.779 --> 00:27:11.339
00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:25.500
00:27:25.740 --> 00:28:00.539
00:28:01.259 --> 00:28:01.579
00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:03.099
00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:18.859
00:28:19.099 --> 00:28:34.779
00:28:35.019 --> 00:29:33.420
00:29:33.579 --> 00:29:43.900
00:29:44.059 --> 00:29:50.220
00:29:50.460 --> 00:30:37.019
00:30:37.180 --> 00:30:42.539
00:30:42.940 --> 00:31:15.579
00:31:15.900 --> 00:31:34.779
00:31:35.180 --> 00:31:50.380
00:31:50.619 --> 00:32:02.140
00:32:02.299 --> 00:33:44.539
00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:46.779