March 12, 2024
Bail Reform and Domestic Violence: Justice, Policy, and Survivor Safety with Ken W. Good I Ep. 34
Bail reform sparks heated debates across the U.S., especially when it intersects with domestic violence. In this episode of the 1 in 3 Podcast, Ingrid sits down with Ken W. Good to dissect the legal, social, and personal dimensions of bail reform.
We explore:
- Constitutional nuances and zero-bail policies
- The impact of bail reform on survivors of domestic violence
- Judicial discretion and the rise of failure-to-appear incidents
- Public safety versus leniency: finding the balance
- Lessons from states like Texas where reform is contentious
🎧 Key Takeaways:
- Understanding the private surety bail system
- How systemic failures can put survivors at risk
- Incorporating survivor voices in legal and policy decisions
- Community, resilience, and faith as tools for advocacy and healing
- Evidence-based strategies to improve justice and safety
Whether you’re a policy advocate, legal professional, or survivor seeking insight, this episode provides a nuanced exploration of bail reform and the urgent need to protect vulnerable populations.
Link to Ken’s bio: https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/ken-w-good/
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
- Send your emails to 1in3podcast@gmail.com
- Follow on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @1in3podcast
- Check out the website https://www.1in3podcast.com/
Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
00:00 - Bail Reform and Domestic Violence Impact
07:21 - Bail Reform in Urban Areas
13:50 - Criminal Justice Reform and State Power
23:36 - Criminal Justice Reform and Public Safety
29:11 - Understanding and Addressing Domestic Violence
38:17 - Domestic Violence and Surviving Relationships
WEBVTT
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Hi Ken, welcome and thank you for joining me today.
00:00:27.341 --> 00:00:28.925
Well, thank you very much for having me.
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You don't know how excited I am that this is not video and I can just talk.
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Yes, you don't have to worry about how either one of us looks.
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So that's, great.
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I know you have a lot of interesting information, so I'm going to mute myself and let you take it away, if that's okay with you.
00:00:47.010 --> 00:01:00.628
Sure, you know I have developed a practice representing Bell Bondsman and studying this area of the law has become an interest for me.
00:01:00.628 --> 00:01:07.224
I have a background as an appellate attorney, so I have a background in looking at the legal issues.
00:01:07.224 --> 00:01:11.533
And you know we have this push for bell reform that started years ago.
00:01:11.533 --> 00:01:19.435
And it started in some federal cases where we were told, hey, bell is unconstitutional and so our current way we're doing bell is going to have to change.
00:01:19.435 --> 00:01:20.859
So we want to change it to this.
00:01:20.859 --> 00:01:24.067
And it turned out that everything we've been told is wrong.
00:01:24.067 --> 00:01:34.140
I mean, bell has not been held unconstitutional, it's been held constitutional and there's been people who've kind of noticed, hey, we don't really have anything to replace it with that works near as well.
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That's the reason why it's been around 200 years.
00:01:36.384 --> 00:01:51.135
And so we've started seeing some mayors kind of push back and say, until you have an alternative that has the same low failure to appear rate and the high level of accountability that the private sector provides, then you don't have an alternative.
00:01:51.135 --> 00:02:07.138
And so we've really kind of seen, during COVID, a lot of data come out that has shown us that this is absolutely true and that some things that have been tried, like zero bell, simple release, release without bell in New York or in Texas.
00:02:07.138 --> 00:02:11.686
Release on personal bonds has had a devastating impact on our criminal justice system.
00:02:11.686 --> 00:02:15.412
It's increased crime and it's increased violent crime.
00:02:15.412 --> 00:02:45.717
As a result of COVID, there was a DA in Yolo County in California who released a study of a comparison of people or defendants arrested on low level crimes charged released on a simple release versus released on a private surety bond and the ones released on simple release had a 200% greater chance of committing a new violent offense in the next 18 months.
00:02:45.717 --> 00:02:54.919
And so we're seeing this risk of additional crime coming all over the country where these things are being tried.
00:02:54.919 --> 00:03:21.000
And what we're really seeing is that in the area of domestic violent survivors, this has had an even more devastating effect, because you know people who are suffering or who are domestic violent survivors already have questions about whether they can trust the criminal justice system because they're being told come to us, we'll get you a restraining order and that's what you need.
00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.201
Well, we already know that.
00:03:23.201 --> 00:03:39.020
You know if someone is going to be someone who's going to prey on our survivors, they're not going to be too concerned about a protective order or violating it.
00:03:39.020 --> 00:03:48.572
But the problem now is with these pushes for alternatives, the push for we need to change what we're currently doing.
00:03:48.572 --> 00:04:02.020
We're actually tying the hands of judges so they cannot hold people accused of domestic violence and so they're getting arrested and immediately released, and it's coming back and making it 10 times worse.
00:04:02.020 --> 00:04:11.756
And so, you know, domestic violence survivors have no time to even think about relying upon the police or relying on the criminal justice system.
00:04:11.756 --> 00:04:19.019
They have to immediately go underground, hide, find a place to go, because the clock is ticking on them.
00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:36.562
And I think that is an area of this bad bell reform or bad bell reform failures that we're seeing in our urban areas, urban area parts of the country that we're not really talking about, the areas that we're.
00:04:36.562 --> 00:04:50.877
Our domestic violence survivors are really getting kicked really bad and almost ignored by the criminal justice system now because of the way they're being released after they're being accused of domestic violence.
00:04:52.343 --> 00:04:56.435
And so just to clarify simple release just means that they are released without bail.
00:04:56.454 --> 00:04:58.000
Well, that just means they're released on their own promise.
00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:02.550
So there's different, it's called different things in different parts of the country.
00:05:02.550 --> 00:05:08.026
So in California it would be released on zero bail, so you're released on a bond.
00:05:08.026 --> 00:05:09.809
That's zero dollars, it didn't cost anything.
00:05:09.809 --> 00:05:14.636
In New York, it would be released without bail, so you'd be released without a bond.
00:05:14.636 --> 00:05:24.391
Texas, you can't be released without a bond, so we would call it being released on a personal bond, because all bonds in Texas have to have an amount, but you're not paying anything for it.
00:05:24.391 --> 00:05:30.632
It's just a promise, and so all three of those can be categorized into what I call simple release.
00:05:30.632 --> 00:05:38.514
They're each one example of just simple release mechanisms where you'd pay nothing and you just get immediately released out of jail.
00:05:40.002 --> 00:05:49.019
Now I know the timeframe probably would vary from state to state in case to case, but on average how much time would that be then from the arrest to release?
00:05:51.204 --> 00:05:58.019
It is going to depend on where you go but, like in Texas, you have to see a magistrate within 48 hours.
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So if you immediately see a magistrate, if you see one within 24 hours, they immediately give you a personal bond.
00:06:05.576 --> 00:06:07.019
You just sign it and you're released.
00:06:07.019 --> 00:06:48.514
You're going to be released very quickly back into the same situation that you were, and I have an example from Harris County where Alex Guajardo was already on a personal bond and got accused, or he was arrested for domestic violence against his wife and he was arrested, taking a jail and went to before the master and was given immediately another PR bond even though he would have violated the conditions of his first one, went home, killed his wife within hours, stabbed her over 30 times in her stomach, and he did it because he said she was pregnant and he didn't want any other man to raise his child.
00:06:48.514 --> 00:06:50.918
And so he's now in jail for murder.
00:06:50.918 --> 00:07:21.009
But the criminal justice system failed his wife, caitlin and you know we've had a bill filed in the last or two sessions ago you know call the named in honor of Caitlin, caitlin's bill and you know it didn't pass, but the concepts of it were combined with another bill so that that was ultimately passed to reform the criminal justice system and the way what the parts that impacted her is.
00:07:21.009 --> 00:07:28.161
In Texas, they limited the use of personal bonds simple release mechanisms for these types of charges going forward.
00:07:30.029 --> 00:07:36.286
Is that common where somebody could be arrested again and still be released on a simple I?
00:07:36.326 --> 00:07:39.391
would say in the majority of Texas probably not.
00:07:39.391 --> 00:07:42.495
But the problem is in our urban areas.
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You know, in our urban areas, where we have high population, high crime and full jails, you know, a lot of times these assault, family violence offenses are misdemeanors.
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We've amended the Texas Constitution.
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Allow someone to be held without bail.
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So this is a charge.
00:08:02.470 --> 00:08:03.492
They could have been held.
00:08:03.492 --> 00:08:07.785
But since it's a misdemeanor, we have judges who say well, it's a misdemeanor, I can't hold you.
00:08:07.785 --> 00:08:13.504
And even though the Constitution says differently, they're like well, it's a misdemeanor, so I have to release them.
00:08:13.504 --> 00:08:16.410
And so in our urban areas they would have.
00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:23.305
Just, you know, in Harris County they released them because it was a misdemeanor and he was given, you know, a personal bond.
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The amount didn't matter because he didn't pay anything.
00:08:27.187 --> 00:08:33.483
Okay, so talk to me a little bit about the misdemeanor thing like why would that not be a higher charge?
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You know that's okay.
00:08:36.387 --> 00:08:47.274
So the part of the politics of these bail reform failures is the push to say we should focus on violent offenses and we should focus on felonies.
00:08:47.274 --> 00:08:51.959
And so as a result of that, we're saying well, misdemeanors are less important.
00:08:51.959 --> 00:09:05.345
Like, harris County was sued in federal court, they entered into a settlement and so they agreed to give everyone that was arrested on a misdemeanor a hundred dollar personal bond unless you were charged with one of seven offenses.
00:09:05.345 --> 00:09:10.015
Now, a hundred dollar personal bond, you're still not paying anything and that's just the amount tied to the bond.
00:09:10.015 --> 00:09:13.378
And so, as a result, crime has increased.
00:09:13.378 --> 00:09:14.945
Failure to appears have increased.
00:09:14.945 --> 00:09:17.087
You know there's been.
00:09:17.087 --> 00:09:26.520
I would say, according to Harris County court watch, there's an 80% failure to appear rate on misdemeanors on average over a two year period in Harris County.
00:09:26.520 --> 00:09:31.032
You think, oh, that can't be correct, that's got to be absolutely wrong.
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That's just a.
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That's a jaw dropping number.
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I did a podcast with a DA in California and he said we do the same thing for all misdemeanors in California and our failure to appear rate in all misdemeanors in California is 80%.
00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:54.144
So I mean what we're learning is when you do these simple release mechanisms, you are going to have a high failure to appear rate.
00:09:54.144 --> 00:10:04.345
And when you have a high failure to appear rate, that creates chaos, because every week we're adding the same number of cases to the criminal justice system in our urban areas on average.
00:10:04.345 --> 00:10:21.105
And so you know, if you have a thousand cases supposed to appear, 80% don't show, then if you just push them back a week, then now you have to have 1800 people show up, and if 80% don't show, then it just compounds week after week, and so that's how it creates chaos.
00:10:21.105 --> 00:10:38.899
Chaos puts pressure on the courts to decriminalize, because they have to dismiss cases to keep from the criminal justice system collapsing, and so it's just a snowball where you have chaos, de facto decriminalization and dismissal of cases.
00:10:39.746 --> 00:10:41.711
When they don't show how?
00:10:41.711 --> 00:10:45.879
How ambitious is the legal system in trying to track these people down?
00:10:46.769 --> 00:10:47.817
In our urban areas.
00:10:47.817 --> 00:10:48.924
Okay, so how ambitious are they?
00:10:48.924 --> 00:11:12.745
They're not ambitious at all, because when they're released on a personal bond, they issue a warrant, but the warrants going to go down to the warrant division and join the tens of thousands of other warrants waiting to be held, and so that usually means that either have to come back on their own oh I just forgot or in these areas, this area, they had to commit another crime to be brought back into the judicial system.
00:11:12.745 --> 00:11:19.418
So, like with Alex Guajardo, the way he came back after his was by killing his wife.
00:11:19.418 --> 00:11:22.053
That's how he came back into the criminal justice system.
00:11:22.053 --> 00:11:27.345
And so you've got, I mean, so there's not, there's not anybody looking.
00:11:27.345 --> 00:11:41.725
That's the big difference between the private industry and the simple release mechanisms, because the private industry has is given an incentive If your person doesn't come to court, you're going to pay the county a certain amount of money, unless you get them back very quickly.
00:11:41.725 --> 00:11:58.171
And so we, if we post a bond and someone to show we're looking for them, we're encouraging them to come back, or we're searching for them and calling the police and saying they're right there, please go arrest them, because we can't arrest in in Texas, and so it's a very different system.
00:11:58.171 --> 00:12:04.884
When the private surety industry posts a bond versus, they get one of these simple release mechanisms.
00:12:04.884 --> 00:12:05.424
Okay.
00:12:05.644 --> 00:12:12.278
Okay, now I'm kind of jumping back a little bit, but you have mentioned that this happened because it was deemed unconstitutional.
00:12:12.278 --> 00:12:12.946
So what?
00:12:12.946 --> 00:12:14.571
What was it that?
00:12:14.571 --> 00:12:17.488
Well, ok, so it wasn't deemed.
00:12:17.528 --> 00:12:22.618
It's just the people pushing for reform were arguing that it was unconstitutional and we didn't have a case on point.
00:12:22.618 --> 00:12:26.692
And so since then we've had two courts of appeals, the 11th and the 5th Circuit.
00:12:26.692 --> 00:12:29.837
Both hold that the private surety bail system is constitutional.
00:12:29.837 --> 00:12:42.780
And the original case that caused all this hoopla in Houston, in Harris County, was called O'Donnell versus Harris County, and they ultimately settled it because well, they settled it for multiple reasons.
00:12:42.780 --> 00:12:54.600
But the problem is the the courts of appeals has since then reversed O'Donnell and the 5th Circuit has ultimately stated that it should have never been filed in federal court.
00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:56.826
So it's been reversed multiple times.
00:12:56.826 --> 00:12:59.308
The courts have said it should have never been filed.
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But Harris County is still following the O'Donnell settlement, which is requiring them to do simple, release personal bonds for simple, essentially all misdemeanors with the exception of seven charges.
00:13:13.542 --> 00:13:22.453
But when you go to court you're still going to get a personal bond by and large, and the problem is they can't hold anybody accountable because of all the chaos.
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So you'll have people on misdemeanor bonds.
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I mean, several years ago you'd have somebody that had miscourt six, seven, eight, ten, twelve, fourteen, sixteen times.
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And they miscourt, get re arrested, get a new personal bond, get out, don't come to court, get re arrested, get a new personal bond and it's just an endless cycle.
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You can see the police aren't all there's.
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There's been all the time arresting and releasing, arresting and releasing.
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Nobody's being held accountable.
00:13:49.745 --> 00:13:53.708
And it was because of this argument that hey bells unconstitutional.
00:13:53.708 --> 00:13:54.769
Well, now we know it's not.
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Now we know it is.
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It is constitutional.
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And in the 5th Circuit even went further recently and said these types of cases can't be filed in in federal court, in in Texas and or the 5th Circuit.
00:14:07.304 --> 00:14:17.245
And I think that was their message of we're tired of this, we're not going to, we're not going to regulate ongoing state court, criminal court cases.
00:14:17.245 --> 00:14:27.667
We want, we're not going to get in the way of that, we're going to allow the state to regulate or decide how they want to handle criminals in their state and so.
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But we're still suffering the consequences of this O'Donnell opinion because nobody in Harris County will go to the 5th Circuit and say or go to the trial court and say you need to vacate this Because the 5th Circuit says it shouldn't have been filed.
00:14:39.885 --> 00:14:41.652
So do you think that's the ultimate answer?
00:14:41.652 --> 00:14:44.721
Is giving the power to the states, or what do you?
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think.
00:14:45.485 --> 00:14:47.945
Well bail is generally run by the state.
00:14:47.945 --> 00:14:51.936
So that's why we have different systems and every state, every state can do their own.
00:14:51.936 --> 00:14:55.193
I mean we kind of have two criminal justice systems at the same time.
00:14:55.193 --> 00:14:59.544
We have each state has their own, and then the federal system overlays on top of everything.
00:14:59.544 --> 00:15:02.745
So if you're charged with a federal crime, you're going to go through that system.
00:15:02.745 --> 00:15:12.144
If you're charged with a state crime, you're going to go through whatever system each state has, and you could be charged with one, or you know a state crime and a federal crime and you could go through both systems.
00:15:12.144 --> 00:15:27.144
And we do see that sometimes, especially when the politics of the state, like in the urban cities, won't allow the punishment sought, so they'll follow it as a federal charge instead of a state charge.
00:15:27.144 --> 00:15:34.945
You know what the solution, you know what we're really doing is we're tying the hands of judges, so, and we're doing it in the argument.
00:15:34.945 --> 00:15:43.375
The argument is we need to protect the poor, so, and we want to make sure the judges don't take advantage of the poor and so.
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But in tying the hands of judges to protect the poor, we're preventing the judges, we're doing the same thing.
00:15:51.544 --> 00:15:54.144
They can't, so they can't address organized crime.
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They can't address career criminals and they can't address gangs, and we're starting to see that change and needs to change more quickly.
00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:05.748
But I don't think.
00:16:05.748 --> 00:16:15.725
I think the answer is we need to give judges more discretion, not less, so they'll have the tools that they need to address these types of situations.
00:16:15.725 --> 00:16:29.284
So when someone's brought before them on a domestic violence charge, they can say I'm not putting the rights of the defendant over the right to the victim, because we were coming out of this period where that's what we've done.
00:16:29.284 --> 00:16:53.667
I mean, you know, people don't realize that 50% of all murder victims in the United States are young black males and by and large the murderers are from the same group and somehow we got turned around and we started favoring young black male Murderers over victims and we need to turn that back and straighten it out.
00:16:54.855 --> 00:16:58.625
I know you've kind of talked with different people throughout different states.
00:16:58.625 --> 00:17:05.467
Do you feel like it's kind of the same general opinion as you're saying right now throughout the country?
00:17:05.936 --> 00:17:17.249
No, I think in our urban areas we have the politics that's just crazy right now, and so I think in those areas you're going to have a continual push for we need to be more lenient for defendants.
00:17:17.249 --> 00:17:19.380
You're starting to see it change.
00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:26.779
It's coming from the mayors first, because they're starting to see businesses close, so their tax bases going down.
00:17:26.779 --> 00:17:29.785
Their commercial property values are going down.
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That's affecting their property taxes.
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You're going to see more and more defaults of commercial buildings, and so you're starting to see mayors say we've got to stop this.
00:17:40.444 --> 00:17:52.048
I mean San Francisco, I think in the last two days, just passed a referendum allowing more police activities that you would have thought they would never have in San Francisco anymore.
00:17:52.048 --> 00:17:59.378
It's a direct reaction to these soft on crime policies with rising crime, and so you're going to see more of that.
00:17:59.378 --> 00:18:08.835
In many ways, I think we're repeating the cycle that we had in the 60s, where we felt more safe, so we became more lenient on crime.
00:18:08.835 --> 00:18:16.911
We started having more crime as a result, and so we started fighting over how to respond to that.
00:18:16.911 --> 00:18:34.324
Our friends on one side of the spectrum said no, we're not going to do it, we're going to pose anything, and ultimately we had a backlash in the 80s and Reagan was elected with a strong fight on crime policy and it carried through with even Clinton.
00:18:34.324 --> 00:18:43.095
Clinton was a strong advocate for tough on crime and we enacted these three strikes, you're out type policies and we went building jails.
00:18:43.095 --> 00:18:51.621
And I think we're on track to repeat those same, that same cycle.
00:18:51.621 --> 00:19:05.133
If we're not, if the, if our friends are not careful and they don't realize, hey, this isn't working, so we need to try something else, then that's where we're headed, because what we're doing right now cannot continue.
00:19:05.133 --> 00:19:05.555
It's not sustainable.
00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:15.028
Do you think we're heading in that direction where both federal and state is looking at needing to make some changes?
00:19:15.048 --> 00:19:26.615
Well, you know, we're always looking at how we can improve the criminal justice system and so I think you know, any session we're in Texas we're looking on ways to improve it, but we're also fighting pushes to destroy it.
00:19:26.615 --> 00:19:32.755
I think we're going to continue with push groups pushing to go backwards.
00:19:32.755 --> 00:19:51.839
But I, like I said, you know there was a news nation town hall on crime and there was a mayor there who said you know, until you have an alternative to the private industry that has the same low fair to appear rate, so more people go to court, and the same high level of camp, but you don't have an alternative.
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:52.482
And that's what we are.
00:19:52.482 --> 00:19:54.270
That's where we are right now.
00:19:54.270 --> 00:19:58.988
We're trying alternatives that are not tested.
00:19:58.988 --> 00:19:59.931
We have no resources.
00:19:59.931 --> 00:20:03.705
It says the work and they say, oh, they're working.
00:20:03.705 --> 00:20:05.333
And when they don't they say, oh, we need more time.
00:20:05.333 --> 00:20:10.853
It just seems more time and that's the reason why you know it just hasn't shown that it's working.
00:20:10.853 --> 00:20:30.909
But if their theory is we can reduce people from the number of people in prison and that will make us safer, then you know that they're talking out of both sides of their mouth, because Common Sense says you release more criminals from jail, from prison, you're going to have more crime, and I would say everything that we've seen supports that, so what?
00:20:30.949 --> 00:20:32.354
can be done or what should be done.
00:20:32.354 --> 00:20:37.028
Is there anything that the average citizen can do?
00:20:37.028 --> 00:20:37.690
Yes, and you know.
00:20:37.809 --> 00:20:43.406
I think probably the strongest voice in this area is domestic violence survivors.
00:20:43.406 --> 00:20:46.134
They can always I mean, you know when we so what can they do?
00:20:46.134 --> 00:20:50.686
They can go to our website, pbtxcom.
00:20:50.686 --> 00:21:27.836
They can join our newsletter, they can join our email groups, and so we, when we see something happen at the legislature, we'll do a call to actions and and sometimes you know the legislature, they know me, they know some of us, but the people who are survivors of these situations are much more powerful and have a very compelling story that I promise you our legislators will be they'll listen very carefully and they want to protect these groups.
00:21:27.836 --> 00:21:31.807
I mean, who doesn't want to protect people who are victims of domestic violence?
00:21:31.807 --> 00:21:42.009
The problem is no one's pointing out to our legislature that these pushes for reform are having devastating effects on this segment, just like anything else.
00:21:42.009 --> 00:21:53.386
You know we're saying what we're doing these things to help minorities, but what nobody is pointing out is when crime increases, it disproportionately increases in our minority communities.
00:21:53.386 --> 00:22:04.210
So they say they're wanting to help these groups and these reforms end up hurting those very groups the most, and nobody realizes that.
00:22:05.954 --> 00:22:13.566
Right, because the offenders can then just be out there reoffending, even perhaps not with the same original victim, but moving on to new victims.
00:22:13.586 --> 00:22:16.336
Well, crime gets committed usually within the same racial group.
00:22:16.336 --> 00:22:21.896
So if crime is going to increase, it's going to increase disproportionately in our minority communities.
00:22:22.357 --> 00:22:23.461
Now you're in Texas.
00:22:23.461 --> 00:22:30.909
How would or who would somebody in different states try to look for to talk to about this?
00:22:31.289 --> 00:22:32.192
Well, I think you know we're.
00:22:32.192 --> 00:22:36.785
I think we're a good resource in Texas and because we usually know what's going on in other states.
00:22:36.785 --> 00:22:43.546
But I think by by just kind of coming to our group, you can find out what's going on in other states.
00:22:43.546 --> 00:22:48.987
We do monitor what's going on in other states, but you know, I think it is very difficult.
00:22:48.987 --> 00:23:10.040
I think what we really need is domestic violence survivors to become more active in their state legislature so they'll know what's going on and so they'll be reaching out to us as a resource that we can help them, instead of us trying to point y'all or point people into the proper area when we're you know we're in Texas.
00:23:10.040 --> 00:23:13.977
If something's going on in Ohio, it's going to be less likely that we know.
00:23:13.977 --> 00:23:15.400
And so what we?
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:23.307
The perfect thing would be we're a resource for people in Ohio when something like this is is taking place.
00:23:23.307 --> 00:23:32.702
So I think probably the best resource right now would be stay current on what's going on at your legislature, watch the news and if you start to see something, reach out will be.
00:23:32.702 --> 00:23:35.715
We can tell you what's going on and we can figure it out really quickly.
00:23:37.459 --> 00:23:39.103
Now you also have a podcast.
00:23:39.103 --> 00:23:42.288
Do you go over this kind of information in the podcast?
00:23:42.474 --> 00:23:42.836
I do.
00:23:42.836 --> 00:23:56.057
So we have our own podcast called the bell post and it, if you, you can go to PBTXcom and you can click on podcast, or you can just go to thebellpostcom and it is a criminal justice podcast.
00:23:56.057 --> 00:23:59.186
So it is just talking about criminal justice issues.
00:23:59.186 --> 00:24:04.060
It is intended to be a resource to legislators and the public.
00:24:04.060 --> 00:24:09.515
So, like New Jersey did bell reform and we call it the New Jersey plan.
00:24:09.515 --> 00:24:13.693
If you know, we did people say, oh, texas should adopt the New Jersey plan.
00:24:13.693 --> 00:24:15.480
Well, nobody knew what the New Jersey plan was.
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:19.584
So we did an episode, or I did an episode on what the New Jersey plan is.
00:24:19.584 --> 00:24:22.998
And once you talk, look at it and you go well, that's not really a good fit for Texas.
00:24:22.998 --> 00:24:30.872
And also, when you talk about how expensive it was and how they did a tax increase statewide tax increase just for that, and then they went broke.
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And then you find, figure out, well, no other state has proposed the New Jersey plan because of the cost.
00:24:36.234 --> 00:24:41.550
And so a lot of the reforms we see are a reaction to the New Jersey plan.
00:24:41.550 --> 00:24:44.662
They want to do reforms but they don't want to pay for it.
00:24:44.662 --> 00:24:47.272
So that's how we get simple release mechanisms.
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Which people are just being released.
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Nobody is supervising them because the states can't afford to supervise them.
00:24:51.894 --> 00:25:04.261
We're getting we're making it a worse system than it was, because we're getting rid of the private industry that provides the highest level of supervision, and we're just getting rid of them in some areas, especially in our urban areas.
00:25:04.261 --> 00:25:37.684
And so what we're seeing is we're seeing where the criminal justice system is getting damaged in the, in the, in the name of hey, we're going to make it better and but we're replacing it with something that we have no study, nothing that says it works, and so far, everything shows exactly what we said it would happen is it was a failure, and you have high sky, high failure to appear, and as criminals see that and see that people aren't being held accountable, they see that as a green light to commit more crime.
00:25:37.684 --> 00:25:47.111
And the groups that are stepping in to those voids is, you know, organized crime, gangs and career criminals, and they're making millions, of millions of dollars out of it.
00:25:47.111 --> 00:25:52.332
We know that because stores are closing, they can't withstand $25,000 a day in shoplifting.
00:25:52.332 --> 00:26:03.310
Well, that month, that's where these groups are stepping into the void and making money hand over fist, and no one seems to be willing to even address that in some of our urban areas today.
00:26:03.310 --> 00:26:07.243
I mean they're just like oh well, it's target's fault that they're closing their stores.
00:26:07.243 --> 00:26:08.125
It's target's fault.
00:26:08.125 --> 00:26:18.063
No, if you can't provide a safe place, if you cannot provide public safety for me to conduct my business, don't be shocked if I close my business.
00:26:19.026 --> 00:26:46.220
I always tell these stories about domestic violence and kind of conclude with something needs to be done and I'm not that person to figure out what can be done and this there are so many different facets and parts to domestic violence and I think this is a huge one and I think this can definitely do something to help improve or lower the statistics of reoffense and domestic violence.
00:26:46.641 --> 00:26:52.883
Well, if I was, going to propose, like, if you know, we had something happen in Ohio or New York and some kind of bill was voted.
00:26:52.883 --> 00:26:54.827
You asked me what should be done.
00:26:54.827 --> 00:27:20.958
We should have domestic violence survivors talking to the legislature saying we should not have simple release for domestic violence, people accused of that crime, because that gets them out very quickly and they go home and they commit murder or something almost as bad, and so you can stop it or decrease it significantly, just over the type of release being used.
00:27:20.958 --> 00:27:41.328
I mean you would think, okay, you and me, if you've got somebody released on a personal bond or a simple release versus being released on the private industry bond, and the person released just on simple release has a 200% greater chance of committing a violent offense in the next 18 months, we would say it's a no brainer.
00:27:41.328 --> 00:27:47.098
We're only going to allow very few people to be released on a simple release.
00:27:47.098 --> 00:27:48.554
But that's not where we are.
00:27:48.554 --> 00:28:10.896
The politics has overtaken it and so we have to tell our stories about how their politics are causing real harm, real damage, real tragedies, and I think once we do that, then you're going to see people like they normally do when you show a spotlight on it the bugs run and the people like sanity returns.
00:28:11.506 --> 00:28:13.714
Absolutely, I totally agree.
00:28:13.714 --> 00:28:16.164
I think this is very helpful, very good information.
00:28:16.164 --> 00:28:20.342
Is there anything else that you want to add, or kind?
00:28:21.045 --> 00:28:21.265
of Well.
00:28:21.265 --> 00:28:22.887
I would just look.
00:28:22.887 --> 00:28:47.288
This is an area where to survive, you kind of have to run a lot of times, and I'm sure that's the advice that they receive when you get a call, and what I would say is, once you get out and get protected, the way you can provide help.
00:28:47.288 --> 00:29:10.990
One of the ways for future people is to, when you see an opportunity to stand up and say what is going on is not right, and we'll be happy, I'll be happy to be right there with you and say I'll give you the stats, I'll give you the numbers, I'll show you how this is being done.
00:29:10.990 --> 00:29:24.182
And, like in California, they were talking about doing a statewide change to a simple release mechanism, and the Yolo County study came in and costed it.
00:29:24.182 --> 00:29:25.164
We need more of that.
00:29:25.164 --> 00:29:47.329
We just need to shine a light on these issues and bring them to our legislators so that when they're hearing from these people on the extreme fringes pushing for things that they know aren't working and saying, hey, what we're currently doing is unconstitutional, and you're like, no, it's been held constitutional, but they won't admit that they keep making the same arguments.
00:29:47.329 --> 00:29:55.756
Even if they've been overturned by courts, they still make them, and so somebody needs to call them out on that and we can absolutely help do that.
00:29:55.756 --> 00:30:11.164
But the stories of domestic violence survivors are the ones that are going to catch everybody's attention because everybody wants to help you all, but you all are having to run and hide and seek help behind the scenes because there's no faith in the criminal justice system.
00:30:11.164 --> 00:30:12.790
We've got to correct that.
00:30:13.986 --> 00:30:14.567
Absolutely.
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