July 23, 2024
Domestic Violence and Family Court: Viv’s Story of Survival and Advocacy I Ep. 38
How does one protect herself and her children when the legal system seems to fail at every turn? In this episode of the 1 in 3 Podcast, Ingrid sits down with Viv, a courageous survivor of domestic violence and legal abuse, to explore the emotional, financial, and psychological toll of navigating family court under the shadow of an abusive partner.
We discuss:
- Emotional manipulation and isolation inflicted by abusers
- Society’s tendency to blame victims instead of abusers
- Challenges of protecting children while maintaining honesty and stability
- The dual personas abusers present and the difficulties courts face discerning truth
- The urgent need for better training for judges and legal professionals
🎧 Key Takeaways:
- Insights from a survivor’s firsthand experience in family court
- Strategies for safeguarding children amidst abuse
- The importance of validation, support, and community for survivors
- Advocacy approaches for systemic reform and legal responsiveness
This episode is a call to solidarity, action, and hope for survivors of domestic violence navigating complex legal systems. Remember, warriors: you are not alone.
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
- Send your emails to 1in3podcast@gmail.com
- Follow on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @1in3podcast
- Check out the website https://www.1in3podcast.com/
Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
00:00 - Surviving Legal Abuse and Control
13:51 - Untangling Family Court System Abuses
22:06 - Protecting Children in Family Court
38:43 - Navigating Unstable Family Court System
49:03 - Recognizing and Addressing Legal Abuse
01:00:05 - Challenges in Family Court System
01:06:59 - Supporting Survivors of Legal Abuse
WEBVTT
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Hi Warriors, welcome to 1 in 3.
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I'm your host, ingrid.
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As you are well aware by now, domestic violence encompasses many forms of violence.
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One of those, however, I have neglected to talk about for too long Legal or litigation abuse, is when an individual utilizes the law or legal threats as a method of control.
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They may use tactics to intimidate or wear you down.
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My guest today, whom I will refer to as Viv, is a survivor whose case is still ongoing Eight years later.
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Her true identity is not used as her next court date is quickly approaching.
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Here is Viv.
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Thank you so much for having me and really finding me, because I think that is one of the most important things that's coming out of one in three podcast is that people are finding one another who've had sometimes different circumstances but have all kind of experienced a similar pattern.
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And when we find one another, no matter where we are living and what our lives are like right now, I feel like it's really powerful to have validation of what we've been through and to kind of share around how we've tried to navigate the challenges of survivorship.
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So my story is not very different, I think, than most other survivors and I'm not going to go in depth about all the details of what I experienced, but I'll say that my journey with an individual that I became involved with and was only in a relationship with for just over two years is very, very similar to almost all survivor stories, which is meeting someone who usually moves you very quickly into a relationship, figures out pretty quickly the things that you value most or want most out of life and then kind of manipulates those things to make it appear like those things are happening or possible, and so oftentimes we will move quickly and thinking that it's because this is just so wonderful and everything that we want is right here, but it's all deception.
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Most of it is deception, and so that happened to me and for a very long time I've carried a lot of kind of guilt and shame for not knowing better, a lot of kind of guilt and shame for not knowing better.
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But over the time that I've been navigating my own personal survivorship I've met a lot of folks, a lot of women particularly, who have had the same experience, and it's really helped me to process my own decisions, because I think I did make decisions, but again, I wasn't really informed of the truth about things, and because of that I'm here eight years later after getting out of that relationship.
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There are a few things that you said that really stuck out to me, and that's the guilt and shame, and that is so common, I think.
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What happens is people look at victims as the reason of being abused, as opposed to the behavior of the abuser of how did you let yourself get into that situation, why did you let yourself stay in that situation?
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And I think that's one of the reasons it's so difficult for any of us to leave is because you start to question yourself what did I do to cause this?
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And it's embarrassing to tell friends, family, colleagues or whomever of what you're going through, and I think that's just a very important point that I do try to stress as often as I can the embarrassment or the shame factor, because it's not your fault, it's not my fault, it's not any of our fault, it's them, it's the abuser that has manipulated and done this.
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And it's not because we're unintelligent or we're foolish, possibly a little bit of naivety, but that's just because you want to believe in human kindness, human like just being a decent human.
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You want to believe that that's what people are, and I think perhaps that's why we overlook some of the things.
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Yes, and Ingrid, I think, like for a very long time I felt like it, like I took it so personally, like also, how could this person have thought that it was okay to do this to me?
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You know, like, why me?
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Of all people?
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There's tons of people in the world, tons of women in the world, why me?
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And what I've really learned, you know, over this last, especially the last five years, is that it could have been anyone and in fact it likely was someone before me that I just don't know about.
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But I do know that there was someone after me and almost the same thing happened to her, thing happened to her.
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I think there was just some differences that gave her a little bit more protection that I didn't actually have.
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But it's a difficult thing also because there is this intersection with people, often too, who are abusers right that they sometimes also have other mental health issues going on.
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And so for myself, I recognized and was aware that there were other issues happening for this person, but because I didn't grow up in a home that was abusive or know the kind of things that I know today about patterns of abuse, I didn't recognize those things for what they were.
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I thought that this person was strictly having mental health issues and that actually staying and enduring was actually supporting this person's health and healing and wellbeing.
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But actually what I've really come to understand is that it's two sort of separate things and while mental health, some of the mental health issues can sort of fuel or like kind of take away the inhibition that people may have to abuse, they're really two separate things, because many people who have mental health issues are not abusers and they don't harm their partners.
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But when you're in the thick of it and you can't sort of, you know, I think for me I spent a lot of the time in that relationship, confused all the time, like wait a minute, what's happening right now?
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Like confused, did I do something?
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What's happening?
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Is it you know?
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So that kind of confusion, you know.
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Again I felt I didn't know up from down.
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In a very short time I was really again only in that relationship for just over two years.
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It moved very quickly.
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We were cohabitating, we ended up having a child together and I, just when it was over, I was like trying to understand what had just happened.
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I think that also is a really important takeaway is, like you know, some people spend 20 years with with an abusive partner and for all the reasons that that know either can't get out or they don't get out, and I just feel really fortunate I see the amount of damage and harm that just in a little over two years happened to me.
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And here I am.
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It's going to be very soon eight years since I split from that relationship and I have been in court with this person for that entire amount of time.
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So in the 10 years I've known this person, eight of it has been spent in court Because once that relationship broke and I said you cannot live here anymore if you are going to continue to abuse me, that was the bottom line and deep in my heart.
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I don't believe that.
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I really thought it was like I'm bottom lining this person and they're going to get it together.
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But that is not what happened and it's, I think, typically not ever what happens.
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And instead this person looked for the quickest avenue to exert power and it was through the court system, through the family court system.
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And so, really talking about the specific things that I endured physical abuse, psychological abuse, those things again very similar to what everybody you know, to many, many survivor stories.
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But I think what I really want to focus on is what happens when you stop cohabitating with that person and when you stop that relationship with them, how they can continue to find ways to control your life.
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Now, if we did not have a child together, it would be different, because there could have been a clean break when the way that we could be done and I could have moved away, I could have stopped all contact.
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But when you have a child, that links you to that person, unless that person decides to disappear.
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And so I've been over the last eight years through several different iterations of trying to control me through parenting, through the parenting experience, and that runs all the way from threatening me, including during the pregnancy, that this person was going to have the child removed from me, and when you don't know better, because you don't know the law or you've never sort of crossed a bridge like that before, those threats are very scary and very real, very scary and very real.
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We've been from that point of like trying to get custody all the way to just about I want to say it's not quite a year and a half ago or two years ago, almost sorry that the person tried to give up their custody.
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So like, went through all of this rigmarole, all this drama, all these agreements and trying to do all these things and then finally was just like, nope, I'm giving up my custody completely, had me sign paper, I mean, and then changed their mind like nine, 10 months later.
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So it just creates chaos, not to mention the incredible financial strain of being a respondent for such a long period of time and really the courts not ever sort of recognizing that what's happening is a continuation of control over the circumstance and over the person control over the circumstance and over the person.
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There are a few things again that I thought of.
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So when you were saying the threats could be scary because you don't know better, it's also because over time and just subtly, and then eventually not so subtly they break you down and they wear you down and they make you second guess everything Like is that real?
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Am I?
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Am I the crazy one?
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Did I make that up?
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Did that not really happen?
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And so you're not even sure what's happening.
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That's real, that's not real in your life anymore.
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And then when they come and they say things like I'm going to take the baby out of you, you're just kind of in this whirlwind of trying to survive, more or less.
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And then like I don't, okay, now what?
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Now there's that threat.
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So how do I go about dealing with that?
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The other thing when you leave the relationship, you think I've survived, I'm not that victim anymore, I'm now a survivor.
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But as long as they're an abuser, they can keep you in that victim status and I think the whole like I want custody, I don't want custody, let's go to court, let's not go to court.
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It's just another way of keeping you on edge and keeping that uncertainty in your life of, oh okay, so are things good?
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They're not good.
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They are good oh good, I'm going to get what I want and what I need.
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Never they are good.
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Oh good, I'm going to get what I want and what I need, nevermind.
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They just ripped that rug out from underneath me.
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So again, it's all just a very.
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It's the way that they can maintain control and and keep you second guessing and trying to keep you disrupted, and I think what's important for all of us is to understand that these patterns are there.
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They don't change.
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This person is not, most likely not going to change.
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I think that there are some instances where people can become a better person, so I'm not going to discount that, but in a lot of these cases, that's not what's happening, and so I think, unfortunately for us, we always have to stay on our toes and just be ready for what's to come.
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I agree with you and I've read this really powerful quote that said abusers, they don't abuse everybody.
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And because they have different, they have different faces, right, and the person that I deal with, you know, is very performance oriented and so people will say, oh, that person such a nice, such a nice guy, wow, so outgoing and, you know, personable and really loves his kid and yes, I mean because that's part of this right.
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Then it makes it seem like I'm crazy because I have fear of that person, right, and that there are concerns for our child's safety and my safety too in interacting.
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And I've had a lot of that too where I've expressed to the court too.
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We had a guardian at Lightham for a period of years, years and this person never screened me for DV, never took seriously any of my concerns about safety of the child, safety, my own safety, when doing exchanges.
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So I feel like, can people manipulate, try to manipulate the family court system and say that things happened that didn't Sure?
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But I think what the research says is that it's extremely rare that people do it and if they try and they meet with any kind of resistance with it, that they give up, right, because they see that their tactic is not working, and so I feel like people like myself and like you and many others who try, really try to express and tell the truth, and I could be spending my time doing so many other things right, use my bandwidth for so many other powerful, good things in the world, but I'm here eight years later still asking the court to consider my safety and our son's safety and wellbeing.
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So if this wasn't real, let me tell you I would be like I would like to be spending my time and my effort and my worry and my you know, my money right, everything on other things.
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And so it's a very frustrating circumstance because I just think that the family court system, especially here, they just, they just don't care, and it's reflected also in the kind of laws that pass here.
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You know, now, as of last summer, there is a 5050 is, you know what it is.
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But at the same time, we do have a measure that if a judge believes for any reason, even if there is not significant proof of violence, but that there is a risk that is related to any kind of family violence, including DB, that that family court judge has the ability to limit the contact of the child and the person who is a potential threat.
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Yet I don't believe that that measure is well understood and I don't think also that family court judges have the kind of training and awareness that they need around legal abuse, around financial abuse as well, and also just understanding in general, all of the different ways that somebody who is abusive what that look, what that can be like and what that looks like and it was said to me he never punched you, never punched me.
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Okay, but then what about all of these other things that happened?
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Right, and it just becomes really interesting how we define abuse and how we define risk on our of our safety and of our children's safety.
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Because, again, the what we know, what's in, like the scientific literature, what we understand about people who have control issues, abusers, is that the things that it's not always this direct abuse that leads to terrible circumstances, right, it's something that happens and that's why Florida did adopt a measure that is in place but it's not being, I don't think, again, judges understand it.
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You know, we continue to have people that kill their children, they kill their ex partners and then they kill themselves, and that is a very legitimate concern to have in some of the cases.
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I think there are a few things on this.
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In defense of a judge, they have become accustomed to every single person that steps into their courtroom for whatever offense beating ticket to murder that they are.
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That person that's standing in front of them is there to deceive the judge, and so it's very difficult for them to be able to understand who is the believable person and who's the liar in situations.
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And I think what happens, especially when you're first coming out of the relationship and you have now just made that decision to remove yourself from that situation, you're still.
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You're still broken down and you're still being actively abused, and it's easy to get in front of a judge and crumble because you're again.
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You're just, you're treading water, you're trying not to drown.
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And then now you have not always a sociopath and I know that's not the proper term anymore, but you have some.
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You have somebody that's standing there that has no empathy, no understanding that anything, that what they have done is wrong, that everything that they have done is justified because of whatever made up scenario they have in their head that you have done to them.
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So they are able to stand there confidently and speak clearly and truly believe that they are the the not the defendant in this case.
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Like they're, they have nothing to defend.
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They're the ones who are being wronged.
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And so when you have a judge who's looking at, well, this person has all of their shit together and they're able to talk clearly.
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And then you have this other person who's fumbling over words.
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Maybe that person's not telling the truth, maybe they're making things up and that's why they're fumbling and they can't form a complete sentence and tell me what's going on.
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There definitely needs to be education across the board, and I mean, I think, for those of us who can keep telling stories and keep pushing and letting our voices be heard, that will hopefully make a difference.
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Well, I think another really important thing to bring up here too, because we're talking you and I, we're talking a lot about like survivorship, right, and I just also want to bring up like the survivorship aspect of our children, because, for instance, my child was really small and was exposed to fighting, a lot of like escalation, had been taken out of my arms during conflict, but he doesn't have any memory of even us as parents living in the same home together.
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But there's still something there.
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And then there's all the aftermath of it, like all the things we're talking about right now the financial impacts, the ACEs, right, the adverse childhood experience that come from also, your parent being a survivor and your other parent being a perpetrator.
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So it's like these things, we know so much about them, but they're not accounted for when it comes to looking for the best interest of the child.
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And I would definitely say, in the state of Florida, what my experience has been is like the person who was the guardian in this case in the last few years, before going on the stand to testify, had not even met with the child for more than a year and went.
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You know, again, it's like it's so the whole thing has been focused on the father, on his rights, his, the hope that this person will like get themselves together.
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And I'm just like man, you know, where is the child in this?
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Because that's that's what it's about.
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Because I've been told, like your safety is not an issue, right?
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Like we're not here to talk about that, we're here to talk about the child and it's like okay, but this whole thing has been about this man.
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It's a very frustrating process.
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I know myself that the most important thing for my child, for our child, is for him to know or believe that he is deeply loved by his parents, and so I've really tried to adopt that as, like my mindset, he will get older and when he gets older he already asked so many questions, especially because this court process has gone for so long and I don't talk to him about it.
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But how does he not see, like all these weird things that happened and then his father's disappeared, and all of these different things?
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And my survivorship is part of who I am, and so I do a lot of work now in advocacy in the area of IPV and family violence prevention and intervention, and so my son understands that and sees that when he has asked me why do you care?
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And it's because it affected me, it affected my life, it affected his life.
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So I know, as he gets older, I know he's going to have a lot more questions, and this is part of his journey too.
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And the thing is about the court is that all of these things that have occurred exist on a court record that people can access, and at some point, as an adult, he will be able to access and request those documents to see that, including the criminal case that also accompanies this circumstance, if he chooses to.
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I think that is definitely one of the major concerns for parents when they get out of these relationships is what happens to my child.
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And then you look at your child and you wonder well, dna, they're half that person.
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And is that person a result?
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Is it nature?
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Is it nurture?
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Where did all of that come from?
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And it's so important to keep a strong, stable home.
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There's a shared custody or majority, whatever the situation may be.
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When that child is at your home, like you said, make sure they know they're loved and, as much as you may dislike your ex-partner, you need to let your child know that that person also loves your child and to have that strong home environment will help them in their future.
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And the concern is like am I raising somebody that's going to end up to be just like that other parent home?
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There's a stronger chance of them becoming a stable, well-balanced adult despite everything that they have to go through, absolutely.
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You know it's difficult, because I want to be able to kind of say some of the things that that occurred that also, I feel like are often get overlooked as like incidents, right, like oh well, that just happened, it just happened one time.
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But you know, one of my concerns for the safety of my son was that the person who abused me also experienced multiple hospitalizations for mental health and that was not disclosed to me.
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I didn't find that information out until after, including right before meeting each other and then there was a person after me, a partner after me, and that partner found me and contacted me around concerns about safety and asking me like, do I have any idea what's going on?
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Because that person also was not made aware, but was obviously like experiencing similar things, not only controlling abusive behavior, but also seeing some concerns, having concerns about mental health.
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Right, and I just want to say I am not a mental health professional, I'm just a person who has had to become a little bit more informed about these issues because of my life, the life experience that I had, and so what was really interesting is this person did come forward, did talk about the experiences that she had, including testifying, and basically the judge said that it was like we.
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So and I just want to say this really quick we had these us myself and the other person had never met each other.
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We've never spoken to each other.
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The only thing is that there was a contact to me, but then I couldn't.
00:27:33.461 --> 00:27:40.243
I didn't want to contact that person for my own safety because I didn't know if that person's communication was being monitored.
00:27:40.243 --> 00:27:49.185
You know what I'm saying, like all the feelings that you have, like why is this person, why would they do this, to contact me like this, like this could put me at risk and this person at risk.
00:27:49.355 --> 00:28:08.112
So, basically turned all of that over for attorneys to be able to navigate, and the person's story was quite similar to mine and the judge said that the stories were just too similar to each other, as though we were working together and it's like no, we're two different people.
00:28:08.112 --> 00:28:10.198
We both have a child with this person.
00:28:10.198 --> 00:28:19.728
We've never even met each other or spoken and we're telling you our experiences in our testimony and they're just too similar.
00:28:19.728 --> 00:28:27.060
It's almost like we that we use the same terminology or something to explain something, and it's again.
00:28:27.060 --> 00:28:31.423
It was just a shocking situation and also for me recalling.
00:28:31.423 --> 00:28:35.464
So let me let me backtrack for a minute and just say this.
00:28:36.056 --> 00:28:45.886
So after being in court for six and a half, almost seven years so that's like going through so many processes we almost went to trial.
00:28:45.886 --> 00:28:47.076
We'd sign an agreement.
00:28:47.076 --> 00:29:02.127
Nothing would be done with that agreement from the other party, like nothing ever moved forward or materialized, and so then we went through the period where the person was forward or materialized, and so then we went through the period where the person was giving up custody and had me sign documents and then change their mind.
00:29:02.127 --> 00:29:28.117
And then we ended up at trial a year ago in September, and basically I had to recall all of the things that I experienced, and so did the other person as well, which again there were some differences but very similar pattern of control, and basically the judge said that what I experienced, she didn't see it as abuse.
00:29:28.117 --> 00:29:46.224
She saw it as sort of just a relationship that I stayed in and eventually did get out of, but that they were not abuse, and that was extremely difficult to hear and accept.
00:29:47.185 --> 00:30:18.688
But again, I know what happened to me, I know what happened to my son and I'm here and I'm living my life, unfortunately, the way that the ruling on the case came down, there was no final ruling and so in two weeks after about it's like been nine or 10 months now we have to return for a continuation of trial.
00:30:18.688 --> 00:30:28.942
And at that point, I mean, everything right now is a bit of a mystery, like even why this is happening or how this could happen.
00:30:28.942 --> 00:30:36.185
The judge in the case was moved out of family court but had the right to retain the case and did so.
00:30:36.185 --> 00:31:00.307
In two weeks I will go back and there were certain things that the other party was supposed to do and take care of, including having a mental health evaluation and there being a report to kind of better understand what's happening and if that person is getting treatment for whatever comes out of that.
00:31:00.307 --> 00:31:03.740
And again, we're two weeks before and we have no news.
00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:06.226
We have no anything.
00:31:06.547 --> 00:31:38.836
The other thing is that after not seeing the child for it was about approximately two and a half years, maybe just a little bit more than that the judge allowed the child to be with the father without any monitoring of a visit, and it is minimal time and it is in a public place, but still it's like you know, you, you go through all the details and you tell all of this stuff and your concerns and basically it was really not.
00:31:38.836 --> 00:31:55.383
There was no concern on the part of the judge when it came to the child, the child's safety, and then also there's the whole aspect of like no contact with the child for 10 months and attempting to give up custody of the child.
00:31:55.383 --> 00:32:00.000
No one really asked any questions like well, how has this impacted?
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:15.542
When it comes to the guardian who testified, there was no information about any of that because she had not met with the child and the judge, I guess, didn't really see that there could or perceive that there was any issue or damage.
00:32:15.542 --> 00:32:17.586
Just on that alone.
00:32:18.186 --> 00:32:28.454
Earlier you said that there's like that kind of what happens in these cycles with people who are abusers and have control issues like this.
00:32:28.454 --> 00:32:51.375
Is this just constant pattern of disruption that they create in your life, but it also disrupts, like, the stability of their children's lives, and courts just don't seem to want to address that, or I can't say that they're not aware.
00:32:51.375 --> 00:32:53.320
I just can't.
00:32:53.320 --> 00:33:22.036
Based on all of the trainings that I see that are available to people Also trying to ensure that actors of the court are given training and have to have to have some awareness, I do kind of feel like it's just it just maybe don't care about that so much, that so much.
00:33:22.036 --> 00:33:30.083
It's really demoralizing as a survivor to just keep telling the story and trying to show how you're doing everything that you can to create stability and counter the disruption right, it's not recognized.
00:33:31.185 --> 00:33:32.328
It's very dismissive.
00:33:32.328 --> 00:33:38.597
It's a very dismissive feeling for a judge to hear this and just be like me, like whatever this is what I decide.
00:33:38.597 --> 00:33:46.523
Your case blows my mind because I mean, he did say he wanted to give up rights at one point.
00:33:46.523 --> 00:34:04.727
You would think just that, even if he were seeing your child, just that you would think, well, let me, let me step back a moment and maybe not just a word time to him, just right out of the gate it just, I don't know.
00:34:04.727 --> 00:34:08.078
It's very frustrating and, like I said, it is very dismissive.
00:34:08.078 --> 00:34:14.637
Is it the same judge that said she didn't feel that what you went through was really?
00:34:14.637 --> 00:34:16.181
Oh, no, yes.
00:34:17.684 --> 00:34:47.501
The other thing I want to say too is, when you think that we've been in court for eight, almost eight years now, right, during that period of time there was a criminal case that was also happening at the same time, and multiple times we almost went to trial and then basically there was something that someone and I'm not saying on my side, I'm saying on the other side right, like was supposed to do, it didn't do, and so things would get pushed back.
00:34:47.501 --> 00:34:56.778
I think it was four times that we were meant to go to trial, and every time we would come up to that point, there'd be an ask for an extension, because these things are not done.
00:34:56.778 --> 00:35:06.101
And also, one other thing I want to just point out is, throughout this whole entire period of time, there's been no order on child support.
00:35:06.101 --> 00:35:21.398
So, basically, for the last we did put into place, like we agreed on an amount that was supposed to be like paid monthly, and it never did and it's never, I mean.
00:35:21.398 --> 00:35:52.764
Now, finally, we've seen the Department of Revenue, childhood or Child Support Office sorry begin to try to do anything, but it's basically like 10 or 20 dollars per pay period or month or whatever that ends up coming through, because a whole other side of this is that this person, who was a competent working person, who was doing their thing and making a great living, also just basically decided to not work.
00:35:53.545 --> 00:36:04.762
And so, again, you would think that, first of all, the very first thing that any family court judge should be saying is how is this child being supported?
00:36:04.762 --> 00:36:06.005
Where are they living?
00:36:06.005 --> 00:36:14.246
What is their the stability of the circumstance for the child, and who's contributing to that?
00:36:14.246 --> 00:36:24.434
So, and I'll be totally honest with you, I'm just going to say to you, when this person said I'm giving up my cousin, I was like, oh my gosh, it's a bit, it's bittersweet.
00:36:24.434 --> 00:36:51.759
It's bittersweet because for my, for my son, it's just that was heartbreaking right For him, but at the same time it the feeling of safety for him and for me, for both of us, it was like, oh my gosh, you know there's a part of you that just feels a sense of you know, but the flip side of that too is that I would not have pursued, I would not if they walked away, I would not go looking for them, I would not try to collect anything.
00:36:51.759 --> 00:36:56.981
I'm just like, please just stop suing me, just let me care for this child.
00:36:56.981 --> 00:37:06.237
And that's why I had negotiated agreements and things in the past to try to not prolong this situation, but essentially here we are.
00:37:07.983 --> 00:37:08.485
That's the thing.
00:37:08.485 --> 00:37:10.275
You're not going for this financial gain.
00:37:10.275 --> 00:37:21.038
You're just going for stability and peace and being able to move forward and live a life and not have to constantly look behind your back to see what's coming after you.
00:37:22.059 --> 00:37:34.541
Right and I get these really intense feelings sometimes like, oh, I have no control, and then I'm like psyching myself out, I have to stop right there and I have to think to myself this can't go on forever.
00:37:34.541 --> 00:37:40.940
Technically, this person could do this for another 10 years, right, nine, 10 years.
00:37:40.940 --> 00:38:08.655
They could continue to use the courts in the way that they have been using them to kind of again be disruptive, to create, attempt to create instability, which has an impact on the child too, because the child now and even previously, would be told, like you know, pretty soon this is going to be over and you're going to come and be with me and you're going to go to this other city where this person lives, which is do you understand what I'm saying?
00:38:08.655 --> 00:38:11.643
And my kid's like mom, what is happening right now?
00:38:11.643 --> 00:38:12.445
What is happening?
00:38:12.445 --> 00:38:14.438
Is that real, is that true?
00:38:14.438 --> 00:38:16.943
And how do you answer questions like that?
00:38:17.184 --> 00:38:36.286
Or when this person tried to give up custody, of course I didn't tell my child that, but the person, the other parent, just literally from one day to another, just disappeared, just stopped calling, stopped any contact, didn't send cards, didn't call, and so my kid was like, where is my dad?
00:38:36.286 --> 00:38:41.298
Is everything okay with him how do you address these things?
00:38:41.298 --> 00:38:44.128
You know it's, it has impact.
00:38:44.128 --> 00:38:46.956
And at one point my son said do you think I'll ever see my dad again?
00:38:46.956 --> 00:38:50.382
And I had to be very honest and say I don't.
00:38:50.382 --> 00:38:52.507
I really don't know.
00:38:52.507 --> 00:38:54.177
I can't answer that question.
00:38:54.177 --> 00:38:56.481
The uncertainty right.
00:38:57.423 --> 00:38:59.027
And that's that's a terrifying thing.
00:38:59.027 --> 00:39:00.538
Is that uncertainty?
00:39:00.538 --> 00:39:02.643
And I think you're doing a great job.
00:39:02.643 --> 00:39:19.275
You have to be as honest with your child, depending on their age and where they are, be honest and keep that open line of communication so they know who they can trust, they know who the stable person is that they can speak with, so they know who they can trust, they know who the stable person is that they can speak with.
00:39:19.275 --> 00:39:23.239
And I mean the truth sucks, there's no other way to say it.
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:23.864
The truth absolutely sucks.
00:39:26.922 --> 00:39:32.559
And you don't need to disclose everything to the child Eventually, as the children get older.
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:36.469
Absolutely you can disclose whatever you feel you can.
00:39:36.469 --> 00:39:41.297
Absolutely you can disclose whatever you feel you can.
00:39:41.297 --> 00:39:41.539
But oh it's.
00:39:41.539 --> 00:39:44.125
It's just so frustrating because you're still trying to maintain that person does love you as well.
00:39:44.125 --> 00:39:47.579
You don't want to paint this awful picture about them.
00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:54.559
No, and I think the other, the other fear too eventually as as children get older and they they also recognize.
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:56.844
Like that is half of me, so am.
00:39:57.063 --> 00:40:12.085
Am I that I don't know that in any of these situations there's a clear win again, unless, even even when the perpetrator is out of the picture for whatever reason, incarcerated or has passed away.
00:40:12.666 --> 00:40:28.710
There's no clear win because that person was a part of your child, whether, even if it was in their infanthood, there's still that question of you know, is there a mental health issue that now, as as the child of that person, am I going to be predisposed to?
00:40:29.215 --> 00:41:09.447
And it's, it's a very long battle, it's not a hopeless battle, but it's exhausting, and that's, I think that's another thing that these abusers look at is I know I can wear that person down and if I just keep this up, eventually and a lot of times that does happen, unfortunately where the victim does throw in the towel and either is like I just can't do this anymore, I will comply with whatever they give or, in some extreme instances, they take their own lives because it gets to be too difficult of a struggle, and I mean it's.
00:41:09.447 --> 00:41:42.139
There has to be, there has to be a change, because right now, what we have in place in terms of domestic violence, in terms of legal, you know, from calling and reporting and trying to get a restraining order all the way to the court system it's broken and it's not designed to actually help the victims and a lot of times it just re-victimizes or even can hurt the victim in some instances and we have to do something about it Based on what you were just saying.
00:41:42.219 --> 00:42:02.072
there's another thing that I want to say, and I feel like there've been a few people who have been on this journey kind of with me, even during the time that I was in the relationship, and they really saw me struggling and trying to figure out what to do and how to navigate and knew that something wasn't right.
00:42:02.072 --> 00:42:06.583
They obviously were right there kind of experiencing.
00:42:06.583 --> 00:42:18.807
Experiencing what was happening in my life, the instability that was happening because of these circumstances, and, even though people have had that, were there and saw it and stuff.
00:42:18.807 --> 00:42:22.362
There've been a few people that are like, are you going to get over this?
00:42:22.362 --> 00:42:23.820
Like are you over it?
00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:33.226
Yet I was like, how do you ever fully get over it, especially when, then, it's continuing?
00:42:33.516 --> 00:42:41.195
But in the court, right, it's like I'm a respondent, I'm not choosing to be there to do this.
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