Aug. 26, 2025
Navigating Legal Abuse: Strategies for High-Conflict Divorce with Lisa Johnson I Ep. 83
What happens when your abusive ex uses the courtroom as their new weapon? For many domestic violence survivors, escaping the relationship is only the beginning. Family court can become the next battleground—a place where abusers weaponize the legal system to continue control, drain finances, and punish their victims.
In this powerful episode of 1 in 3, Lisa Johnson, co-founder of Been There Got Out and a survivor of legal abuse, shares her decade-long journey through high-conflict divorce and coercive control. After more than 100 court appearances across two states—and successfully defending herself against a $4 million defamation lawsuit filed by her ex-husband—Lisa turned her experience into advocacy and education for others trapped in similar cycles.
Lisa breaks down practical strategies for documenting abuse patterns, communicating strategically, and protecting children caught in the crossfire of manipulation and alienation. She also explores how to work effectively with attorneys, guardian ad litems, and court evaluators who may not understand narcissistic abuse or coercive control dynamics.
You’ll learn why “staying for the kids” often causes more harm than good, how to build critical thinking skills in children, and the importance of self-preservation throughout prolonged litigation. Most importantly, Lisa reframes the survivor narrative:
“Abusers don’t target you because you’re weak—they target you because you’re strong. Because you shine.”
For anyone navigating family court after domestic violence, this episode offers validation, empowerment, and actionable tools to reclaim control and move forward safely.
💜 Listen now to learn how to recognize legal abuse, protect your peace, and find community with others who’ve been there—and got out.
Lisa's Links:
https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/lisa-johnson/
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
- Send your emails to 1in3podcast@gmail.com
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Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
00:00 - Introduction to Lisa Johnson
09:43 - Understanding High-Conflict Divorce
17:33 - When Children Become Weapons
30:18 - Strategic Communication With Your Ex
42:28 - Working With Attorneys and GALs
51:53 - The Six Alienation Factors
57:53 - Been There Got Out Resources
WEBVTT
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Hi warriors, welcome to One in Three.
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I'm your host, ingrid.
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Leaving a domestic violence relationship doesn't necessarily mean the challenges are over.
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It doesn't make navigating the legal system any easier either, when it comes time to form your team, build a strategy and face the process head on it can seem so overwhelming, making an already frightening situation seem impossible.
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That's why experts like today's guest are so important.
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I'm excited to introduce Lisa Johnson, a certified domestic violence advocate high conflict, divorced strategist and co-founder of Been there Got Out.
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Hi Lisa, Welcome to One in Three.
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I have been looking forward to this episode for a very long time.
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Me too, I'm excited.
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I have quite a few friends who have been asking about when this is going to be going live.
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Already I guess we need to say what we're talking about.
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So go ahead and give a background of your topic and, I guess, why you got into it too, if you don't mind.
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Yeah, sure, I mean big question.
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I'll try to keep it as concise as possible.
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So yeah, my name is Lisa Johnson.
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I am the female half of Been there Got Out and I'm a high conflict divorce strategist who specializes in something called legal abuse and that's where our clients' exes basically weaponize the justice system to wear us down and bleed us dry financially.
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So Chris and I my partner work with the most extreme divorces, separations, custody battles and co-parenting hell and we try to save our clients time, money and energy throughout the muck of family court and thereafter.
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So we really get into a lot of the granular stuff Like we're not typical what you imagine divorce coaches.
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We don't focus on like how life is much better on the other side.
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We carry you through the court stuff again, like working with an attorney and, if you have run out of money, like I did, then representing yourself successfully.
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So I basically spent 10 years in the legal system with my own case.
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Most of that was post-judgment, meaning after the divorce was finalized.
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It took one year and $100,000 to get out of that marriage and then the rest was post-judgment, which was about 100 court appearances, like I said, in about seven and a half years in two states.
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And then my ex appealed four times.
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I represented myself at the appellate level and the case was so notable that it got published as case law in Connecticut, which is, I always say, it's a huge honor for an attorney, and I've been told that no one's ever heard of a pro se or self-represented litigant like me being published.
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So I'm always like, really, really proud of that.
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And then I also gave live testimony which helped pass something called Jennifer's Law, which is the name of the law that expanded my state's legal definition of domestic violence to include coercive control.
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So that's all that invisible abuse that people don't usually take as seriously when they're like, well, at least they didn't hit you.
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Well, a lot of coercive control and invisible abuse doesn't leave scars, but it's a lot worse.
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So Maine just became, I think, the 10th or 11th state just a few days ago to pass coercive control legislation.
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And then my ex decided to sue Chris and I for $4 million in defamation in civil court.
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And that was like year nine in court and I just was like, of course, you know, you can't just leave us alone.
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So we got that taken care of ourselves.
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It took a few months.
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I was terrified, even though everybody told me not to worry and we got that thrown out.
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And then our first baby came out in 2023.
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It was our first book.
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It's called Been there, got Out Toxic Relationships, high Conflict Divorce and how to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances.
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And our current book is called when your Ex Turns the Kids Against you.
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That's coming out early 2026.
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And that's about the topic of whatever you want to call parental alienation, abuse by proxy coercive control, poisoning the well.
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But that is something we see more than almost anything else in the extreme divorce and post-judgment world, where people are using children to punish their exes, and it is just horrific.
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It is one of the most heartbreaking things that we see and, according to statistics, about 20 to 22 million divorced parents in America and Canada alone are experiencing this.
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That's terrible.
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That's actually another topic that I really would love to get into.
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So maybe I'll have to have you back on because it is kind of a taboo topic.
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Because I guess I read one article where it was talking about how they were looking at it as the and not to say that the bad guy is always the dad or the good guy is always the mom, but like, for an example, the mom and just to use the term, good guy, bad guy, but the mom was trying to do what was best for the children but then she was being accused of alienating the father.
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But yeah, I'm not going to go on that tangent because I won't stop.
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But obviously, with your background, you have the expertise and the experience, the personal experience, to definitely be the person to come on and talk about legal abuse and navigating the legal system, going through all of this drama with these exes and it doesn't start in the courtroom, right.
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So when should somebody start preparing for this battle?
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Well, I mean legal abuse, and a person turning children against another parent starts often while you're still in the relationship.
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When I was getting well first of all, I was with my ex for 20 years.
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We were married for nearly 18.
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I never thought I would get a divorce and so for those last two years it was really.
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You know, that's a whole other story.
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But it became apparent that there were things that were irreparable.
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It became more painful to stay than to leave and I really took my time and thought I was being really careful with an exit plan.
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I really took my time and thought I was being really careful with an exit plan, and when I finally did talk to a divorce attorney who I ended up hiring, he said within 20 minutes of the consult yours is going to be a really bad case, yours is going to be one of the worst ones.
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And I was like what?
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Because in my head I thought my ex is a good guy, he's just done some bad things.
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And later I interviewed that attorney for our book and he didn't know at the time, he hadn't organized what he was thinking when he told me it would be bad.
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But we managed to break it down into a few different factors that indicate high-conflict divorce.
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And so one of the things that I didn't realize at the time and now it makes a lot of sense is when somebody has addiction or mental illness and I'm not talking about someone in recovery, that's completely different but when someone has a mental illness it means their judgment is impaired Same with addiction and so they're not thinking properly, they're not thinking logically, they're not thinking even in their own best interests and forget about the family and the children.
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So when you're dealing with someone like that, they make the process very, very difficult.
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Often we see with our client's exes, who usually have some kind of personality disorder, that they don't follow the normal cadence of what you'd expect from a separation or divorce.
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So most people think, okay, everybody is angry in the beginning and you want to kind of move on with your lives and things settle down.
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But the problem is with someone with one of those issues.
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They're not coming to the table doing what's fair and again, what's best for the kids in the family.
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They're doing what's best for themselves and it's very short-term thinking best for the kids in the family.
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They're doing what's best for themselves and it's very short term thinking.
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So they will.
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Often, you know, they're concerned with punishment because it's the end of the relationship.
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We can get into why?
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But they just ends up like exploding everything.
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My lawyer's paralegal said something that I'll never forget.
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She said once you leave, the power dynamic in the relationship increases tenfold and I would say probably more than that.
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So when somebody starts losing control and that's been the nature of the relationship they go a lot harder post-separation and many of our clients feel like, oh my gosh, I feel like it's worse than if I had stayed, because at least I had more control.
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Now it's up to strangers in the legal system and all these people are getting in the midst of my parenting and it's awful.
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And my ex, who used to not be around as much, is now fighting as hard as possible to hurt me the most by usually custody trying to take the kids away from me.
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So very difficult.
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Yeah, and I think that's one of the biggest fears too, too, is do I go forward with a divorce?
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If I do, who's going to be here to kind of be the buffer for the kids?
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Or how do I guarantee that I get the kids as much as I want?
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And you can't, and that's the thing.
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And in terms of being a buffer, I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of people think that they're staying for the sake of the kids and that they can be a buffer, especially when there's violence taking place.
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And again, I'm not just talking physical, I'm talking verbal, psychological, sexual, financial, all those things that people think.
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Well, if kids don't see it, they're not really understanding what's going on.
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If kids don't see it, they're not really understanding what's going on.
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But one of the worst things you can do is stay for the sake of the kids, because kids do feel like it and they do absorb that negative energy.
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Home is supposed to be a safe place and when kids are in a domestic violence situation, they compare it to being in a war zone, because the one place you think is safe is actually dangerous.
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So it is very harmful to kids to be in these unhealthy relationships.
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And not only that, but it also teaches them that the relationship their parents have is normal.
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So, no matter what you tell them, they're going to gravitate towards what's familiar and they're going to keep repeating those cycles.
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And also, you can't really be a buffer if you can't even protect yourself.
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So it's very complicated.
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It is not an easy decision.
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No, not at all, and one thing that I think is really important to understand is that when you do have the separate households, even if the abusive parent has custody, the children will learn what the safe, consistent home is versus the home where they don't feel comfortable, and I think that is a huge part of making sure that they're developing to understand what is normal and what is safe and what is acceptable behavior.
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Yeah, and the scary thing is so kids learn to do something called code switching, and I learned this term from a parenting coach named Mike Barsamian.
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He said that it's almost as though they're living in two different cultures, and so they learn to adjust themselves.
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They fawn, meaning they figure out how to be safe in two different cultures, and so they learn to adjust themselves.
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They fawn, meaning they figure out how to be safe in the different homes.
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The issue that a lot of our clients, who are all domestic violence men and women, dealing with is that sometimes children will align with an abuser because they see this parent as the more powerful one and they see what's happened to the safe parent, who's been discarded, rejected, like, terrorized, and so they think well, to keep myself safe, I have to align with that abusive parent.
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It's not that I love them more, but I have to keep myself safe.
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It's very, very difficult for a safe parent or a healthy parent to be like oh my gosh, why is my kid turning away from me?
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Like I was the one who raised them.
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I'm the like, don't they know?
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But think about yourself.
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We, as adults, were in these unhealthy relationships.
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We were brainwashed as well.
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A child doesn't even have the maturity or the frontal lobe in their brain development to be able to have proper judgment.
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So it is really, really complex.
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What do you do for that?
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So we talk about that a lot in our book that's coming out.
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There's a lot you can do, but it really starts with establishing strong bonds with your children consistently, as early as possible and, even if you haven't, just to make sure that you're able to spend quality time with them and build memories so that when they're hearing all the craziness from the other side, they have to learn to trust their judgment.
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So a lot of it involves helping a child develop critical thinking skills, helping them learn to advocate for themselves, helping them realize that they need to pay attention to their gut and to say like I know that this is true, even though an adult is telling me this helping a child learn to question things, not just with their other parent, but in general.
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There was a singer that I interviewed who her name is Tyra Juliet, and she wrote a book I think it's called the Sky is Red, and it's based on this game that we always have our clients play with really young kids, where you will be, let's say, taking a walk or spending time with them, and you deliberately make an observation that's false and you look at them like the sky is red and you want them to say what?
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The sky is not red.
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But if they don't question you, that's when you need to start saying do you agree with me?
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Is that right?
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Like what?
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You want them to start realizing what is reality?
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And even though you're a parent to question, you like to push back because that's one of the healthiest things for kids in this situation and in terms of establishing those bonds.
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There was a school psychologist that I interviewed named Dr Alina Boye, and she said that kids really want two things control and attention any age kids.
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So she said if you can spend 10 minutes a day getting onto their level doing something that they want, that they're leading with, even if it's a video game and you think video games are ridiculous let them lead.
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So they feel like they have some sense of agency in their lives and you're showing that you're there for them and you're willing to pay attention to what they want to do.
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Even for those few minutes will impact your relationship so much, because when you're dealing with an abusive parent on the other side, they don't really care about how anyone else feels or what anyone wants and they can't keep up that consistent routine of developing positive memories.
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So this is the foundation of a healthy relationship where your kids learn.
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I know what mom or I know what dad is, really like myself.
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So when that terror campaign comes about, all those poisonous messages or whatever it is they're doing to try to turn their kids onto their side, to create what's called a loyalty bind, then your kid will be a little bit less likely to fall for it.
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I'm taking notes ferociously here.
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I take lots of notes too.
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Love it.
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Okay, so obviously the abuser.
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Because they want to maintain their control, they are saying things to the children and then they're coming home to the other parent and sometimes they're telling that other parent what's being said about them.
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What is a way to navigate the conversation with your children to where you can let them know that that's not appropriate?
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But then you're also trying not to bad mouth the other parent because I don't know like.
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I just feel that you probably should not do that because you want them to come to their own conclusions.
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You don't want them to start feeling that, well, this parent's trying to make me think that way and that parent's trying to make me think the other way.
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Am.
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I right.
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Yeah, no, that's such a great question because people make a mistake, a big mistake with this, where the child is told something false, a poisonous message is about the other parent.
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They come back to the other parent and they say Daddy says that you're this, or Mommy says that you're this, and so your instinct is to be like that's not true and to defend yourself.
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Right, because the kid should know what's true.
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The problem is is that kids love generally both their parents and see both parents as an authority, and they think that authorities don't lie.
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So if one parent's telling them something false, then they go to the other parent and the other parent's telling them the opposite false, then they go to the other parent and the other parent's telling them the opposite.
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It's like I don't know who to believe and it also is an insult to my intelligence, especially older children, because they're like I can figure this out for myself, like don't tell me what I'm supposed to think.
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So instead, what's been recommended by a lot of therapists is, when a child comes to you and says these vicious things that you know are just coming straight from your ex out of their mouth, is to first pause and realize that part of this is your ex's attempt to trigger you, because generally when they say things like this, the kid says something to you and the child is paying attention to your reaction.
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When they go back to the other parent, the other parent will be like what happened is paying attention to your reaction.
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When they go back to the other parent, the other parent will be like what happened?
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So it's really like abuse by proxy, like they're getting at you through the child.
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So one thing that you can do is I mean, a lot of it involves self-regulation and realizing, like I cannot like take the bait here.
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But when the kid says that it's like a test, like what are you going to do is to kind of take it in and say, wow, you know, where did you get that from?
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Like do you think that's true?
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Like why do you believe that?
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I mean, you know me right.
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Like why would you say something like that?
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So instead of being afraid and being like I need to correct you the opposite, tell me more.
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And that helps them develop those critical thinking skills.
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So they're saying something.
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A lot of times they're angry or hurt and there's heartbreak underneath that hostility, because they don't know what's going on and they're so upset that you're not together anymore, even though it was awful when you were.
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Their lives are the ones that change the most, so they want to see your reaction.
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And so when you are not afraid and you're just like whoa, like tell me more about that.
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And it depends.
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Like if it's a little kid you'd be like okay, anyway, let's go, and you know you can distract them, let's go to the birthday party or whatever.
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But with older kids I would encourage them to keep talking until they run out of like reason.
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You know, like what makes you believe that, like I want to know.
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You don't say the other parent is right or wrong, you just say I want to hear what you have to say.
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And again, that validates their sense of agency and their ability to think for themselves.
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But you're encouraging them to go deeper and analyze.
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Like you're saying something to me.
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Tell me where it comes from, like what led you to believe this.
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So if that starts happening enough, say that parent then wants to do something to advocate more for their children.
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So now, like getting into the legal system, when, at what point is that parent able to say the divorce is already over?
00:20:08.707 --> 00:20:15.574
But then you know this is happening, like you were mentioning post-separation abuse, that this continues to happen.
00:20:15.574 --> 00:20:21.789
And now there's the concern for the children's well-being, but there's nothing provable.
00:20:21.789 --> 00:20:25.442
Like you know, it's not bruises, it's not.
00:20:25.442 --> 00:20:33.622
I can show you that this child's being physically abused, but there's a manipulation happening there and there's definitely an emotional and psychological component.
00:20:33.622 --> 00:20:36.207
What can that parent then do?
00:20:36.788 --> 00:20:37.028
Okay.
00:20:37.028 --> 00:20:57.289
So one of the things that we do more than anything with everybody is something we call strategic communication, where you are communicating only in writing with your ex and we always say you're writing to your ex but you're writing for an invisible audience because our clients are always in court or before like evaluators and guardian ad litems.
00:20:57.289 --> 00:21:13.971
So we're always like your goal is to always present as the best co-parent ever, but at the same time, you are documenting your ex's patterns of behavior over time and the impact the visible impact it has on your children as well as on your relationship with your children.
00:21:13.971 --> 00:21:31.969
One of the most important best interest or custody factors is which parent is likely to support the child's relationship with the other parent, because that child is half of each of you, and the flip side of that is is one parent attempting to undermine the child's relationship with the other parent.
00:21:31.969 --> 00:21:35.320
So that's where the whole alienation factors comes under.
00:21:35.320 --> 00:21:40.192
So let's say your child comes to you and says dad said this or mom said this.
00:21:40.192 --> 00:22:00.951
So we would follow it up with a written communication that basically and this is like very I mean, I'm only scratching the surface of strategic communication but we would say something like and again, you need to be very careful, because if you're reporting this back to your ex, if you feel like your child's going to be punished for telling you, you need to consider whether it's worth it.
00:22:00.951 --> 00:22:07.749
But you might want to say something like our son said that you told him blah, blah, blah.
00:22:07.749 --> 00:22:25.425
You just stating a fact, what your child said, and then we would put in something which Chris and I call the universal agreement, and it's a value that everybody believes that, even though your ex is not doing it, they can't disagree with it.
00:22:25.425 --> 00:22:27.508
And it's for that invisible audience.
00:22:27.508 --> 00:22:37.352
Then we'd say something like I'm sure we can both agree how important it is to support each other's relationship with our child, something like that.
00:22:37.352 --> 00:22:39.519
And you use your own voice and you fill in the names.
00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:46.554
Or I'm sure we can both agree how important it is to shield our child from any conflict between us.
00:22:46.554 --> 00:22:52.643
Shield our child from any conflict between us, and you leave it there.
00:22:52.663 --> 00:22:58.542
Now, this is setting up documentation for a pattern if this continues, because when you send something like this, you're kind of cornering them.
00:22:58.542 --> 00:23:07.862
First of all, the best exhibit that you can ever bring to court is your communication with your ex, and strategic communication basically turns hearsay into evidence.
00:23:07.862 --> 00:23:09.862
So, ingrid, you said you can't prove it.
00:23:09.862 --> 00:23:23.162
But when I'm writing to my ex and saying you know our kid said this happened, I'm not saying I know it's true or not, I'm just saying, if it did, I'm sure that we both wouldn't want something like this.
00:23:23.162 --> 00:23:26.326
We don't want to involve our kid in the conflict, we don't want to badmouth each other.
00:23:26.326 --> 00:23:46.967
But I'm not saying don't you do this because I don't know what happened, but I'm putting it out there for that invisible audience to start drawing conclusions if this continues Now, once in a while I mean people do things all the time once in a while, but our client sexes do this all the time, this insidious abuse that's psychological, that they think nobody's really noticing.
00:23:47.426 --> 00:23:50.130
So, as this continues, well, first of all, let me pause.
00:23:50.130 --> 00:24:04.286
So the reaction you'll get okay, the best reaction, which is the rarest, is they'll be like oh shoot, this is on the record, I better stop.
00:24:04.286 --> 00:24:05.490
Okay, probably unlikely, but that's what you want.
00:24:05.490 --> 00:24:08.338
You want this to get a result where they're like oh boy, they're smart.
00:24:08.338 --> 00:24:11.465
They'll be like I better stop doing this because this is going to hurt me.
00:24:11.465 --> 00:24:15.981
But more commonly is the silent treatment.
00:24:15.981 --> 00:24:17.647
This is the second most common, the silent treatment.
00:24:17.647 --> 00:24:23.921
So they say nothing and it's aggravating because you're sending messages and they keep doing it and nothing happens.
00:24:24.321 --> 00:24:44.531
But saying nothing helps strengthen your case because here you are confronting them about something that matters to the court, like a child has the right to have a relationship with two healthy parents and you're noting that this person's behavior is interfering or harming your relationship with your child, and they're not even disputing it.
00:24:44.531 --> 00:24:56.144
Then it's part of the record that becomes evidence and the most common thing we see is like a wall of rage text that's about how you're a terrible parent, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah has nothing to do.
00:24:56.144 --> 00:25:03.769
And again, that is very helpful for your case because they're not actually taking care of a problem which is a significant issue.
00:25:03.769 --> 00:25:15.682
Like you do not undermine or badmouth or whatever it is you're doing, psychologically abuse a child, and I interviewed this New York City attorney named Yoni Leveritz who said their anger is your gold.
00:25:16.304 --> 00:25:38.912
So, even though most of our clients have had PTSD when it comes to communicating with their ex, where it's like oh no, oh my gosh, what is it now, by seeing it a little bit differently, like, okay, I'm going to let them get angry at me because this is actually going to help my case, because I can show patterns of how, every time I bring this up, they just rage at me and claim that I'm a terrible parent.
00:25:38.912 --> 00:25:42.587
That just goes to show they're doing exactly what I'm saying.
00:25:42.587 --> 00:25:51.843
It sounds like they're doing and now I can start thinking about what to ask the court for in terms of relief and there's like a wide variety of things.
00:25:51.843 --> 00:25:57.663
But again it takes time and or like horrible things to happen to build a strong case.
00:25:57.663 --> 00:26:01.611
So again it's about patterns of behavior over time.
00:26:01.611 --> 00:26:06.303
This is not something like they do something a couple times and then, oh, I'm going to, you know, take custody away.
00:26:06.303 --> 00:26:07.884
That doesn't usually happen.
00:26:08.825 --> 00:26:15.230
Right, what other documents are helpful when going into this?
00:26:15.230 --> 00:26:23.957
Or I know, like recording is, that varies, I think, state to state on what you can record, what you can't record.
00:26:28.819 --> 00:26:30.423
Yeah, that's a great question, because people are always like I'm recording.
00:26:30.423 --> 00:26:31.406
I'm recording recording like what's going on?
00:26:31.406 --> 00:26:37.413
Okay, first of all, from interviewing a number of attorneys, judges don't really like recordings because they don't know the context.
00:26:37.413 --> 00:26:49.480
However, if you're dealing with a forensic investigator or a guardian ad litem, that can be helpful because you have more time to really let them examine what's going on and look for those patterns.
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:51.125
Judges usually don't have time.
00:26:51.125 --> 00:27:01.627
They're like I don't know if AI did this or whatever it is, but someone who can really investigate those recordings might be helpful, but they're not as good as your communication with your ex.
00:27:01.807 --> 00:27:07.708
You need things that are provable, but other documentation, like our Family Wizard.
00:27:07.708 --> 00:27:13.373
Some of those parenting apps are great because they don't let someone alter, uh, what was sent.
00:27:13.373 --> 00:27:16.382
It shows timestamps of when something was opened or closed.
00:27:16.382 --> 00:27:24.288
Lawyers and courts can have access to those records, and also some of those phone calls or FaceTimes can be recorded when they're.
00:27:24.288 --> 00:27:39.890
I think it's when it's outgoing, though, but one of the things that children have a right to is privacy when they're speaking to another parent, when they're at the other parent's house, and so if things are being recorded and that other person is in the background making comments, or even a child looking to the side.
00:27:39.890 --> 00:27:44.766
I mean, you can see, usually when something is going on, that's really good evidence too.
00:27:47.300 --> 00:27:48.404
Okay, that makes sense too.
00:27:48.404 --> 00:28:00.455
So Typically, going into a court situation, the victim is still very victimized and it's a very difficult situation.
00:28:00.455 --> 00:28:07.180
What do you suggest they do to prepare themselves for that scenario?
00:28:07.180 --> 00:28:13.023
I mean, even like depositions or mediation all of that can be re-traumatizing to victims.
00:28:13.344 --> 00:28:14.223
Absolutely is.
00:28:14.223 --> 00:28:20.667
I mean and that's why it's so important to understand that it is going to be re-traumatizing.
00:28:20.667 --> 00:28:26.623
People are always like, oh, I'm praying the judge sees, or I'm hoping my ex's attorney doesn't attack me.
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