Oct. 14, 2025
Lizzbeth Aleman-Popoca, Named and Remembered I Ep. 90
A woman is “found dead.” The headline ends there, but the story doesn’t—and neither does our responsibility. Ingrid sits with Vanessa and Yaneth to honor Lizzbeth by name, define femicide without euphemism, and follow the thread from a family’s search to a community’s demand for change. What emerges is both deeply personal and relentlessly systemic: a town that looked away, a police response that lagged, and a courtroom outcome negotiated on the killer’s terms.
Vanessa, founder of Vivan Las Autonomas, explains how a small group of young immigrant women stepped into the vacuum—pressuring investigators, guiding a family through pre-trial and trial twists, and partnering with media to cover Lizzbeth as a whole person, not a headline. We talk about why survivors often look “emotional” while abusers appear “credible,” how passive language like “woman found dead” erases intent, and why undercounted data distorts policy. The result is a cycle where agencies tally cases, police move on, and the public accepts femicide as an isolated tragedy rather than a pattern we can interrupt.
We go deeper into plea deals, the narrowness of legal charges, and what “justice” feels like when key harms—tampering with evidence, the presence of a child, the brutality of disposal—don’t show up on the charging sheet. Then we widen the lens to prevention: treating femicide as a public health crisis, funding multilingual rapid response, building cross-agency protocols for missing women, and using art and data together to change hearts, habits, and budgets. Vanessa shares details of an upcoming Connecticut femicide site that memorializes victims, tracks cases, and gives communities leverage with lawmakers.
Lizzbeth was a mother, a sister, and a bright, funny presence who deserved safety—and a system ready to act. If you’re ready to move beyond thoughts and prayers to concrete action, listen, share, and join the work. Subscribe for more stories, leave a review to boost visibility, and tell us: what would real accountability look like where you live?
Links:
https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/vivan-las-autonomas/
https://www.instagram.com/vivanlasautonomas/
https://www.facebook.com/vivanlasautonomas/
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
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Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
00:00 - Opening and DVAM Themes
01:02 - Introducing Vanessa, Yannet, and VLA
02:22 - Defining Femicide and Why It Matters
04:46 - Community Silence and Systemic Failures
07:30 - Building VLA from Grassroots Grief
11:39 - Media, Language, and Naming Femicide
15:35 - Lisbeth’s Case: Timeline and Lies
18:59 - Plea Deals, “Justice,” and Power
23:43 - Counting What’s Not Counted
27:29 - Who Lisbeth Was
30:41 - Autonomy, Art, and Data
34:27 - A Public Health Lens on Femicide
38:26 - Closing, Resources, and Support
WEBVTT
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Hi, Warriors.
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Welcome to One and Three.
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I'm your host, Ingrid.
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As I've shared over the last few episodes, this year's Domestic Violence Awareness Month carries two powerful themes with Survivors Always and Everyone Knows Someone.
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Today's episode reflects both.
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I'm honored to welcome Vanessa and Yannet, who will share the advocacy work of Vivan Las Autonomas and the story of Yannet's sister, Lisbeth.
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Let's get started.
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Hi, ladies.
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Thank you so much for joining me today.
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How are you?
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Good.
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How are you?
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Good, thanks.
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Um, before we get into our conversation, do you mind just giving a little bit of a background on yourselves just so the listeners get to know you some?
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My name is Vanessa Sarah.
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Um, I'm a moving board immigrant, based in advocate.
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Uh, I'm a community organizer and advocate.
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Um, I founded by NASA Alabama, um, which is an organization that supports and organizes families impacted by femicide, as well as supporting survivors, victims of domestic and sexual violence.
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Okay.
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Do you want to talk about a little bit more about your organization?
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And I mean, you you mentioned already what it does, but and I'm sure most people understand what femicide is, but just to bring everybody up to speed so we're all on the same page.
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Of course, no, I usually have the question.
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I actually found it in my work that most people don't know what femicide is, both in English and in Spanish.
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Um, femicide is the intentional killing of a woman because of her gender.
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Um and, you know, I came into this word and bringing awareness about feminicide because of what happened to Easter and her killing in 2020.
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Um it was at a time where I myself had been years um of the judicial system as a survivor of sexual abuse and that experience.
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And then I heard about Lisa that she had listed for some time and that she was then found.
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Um and there was no community organizing around the time, despite that there are a lot of a little bit like advocacy groups in the area, but there was no focus to uh gender violence, um, and there was no uh really advocacy around what happens when missing when women are missing in our community, or what happens when women are emerging in our community because of domestic violence, because of the part of violence.
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Um and so, you know, we've got messaged over not started that work started really um in response to uh the need for these best family at the time, um, who was looking for community and support to navigate something that was so unexpected and traumatic and that um as a community, right, we hadn't yet known how to how to come together uh in this way, right?
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How to break from this idea that uh domestic violence happens to just one person and it's an isolated issue, um, and to look at really how is this a community issue?
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Um, how are we failed to respond to this, um, right?
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And who are the entities that are failing to respond, right?
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And in Miss Bett's case, um she was living in a town in Captain that was predominantly white, um, and uh predominantly a lot of Italian families.
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Um, it was not a very welcoming uh community to immigrants.
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Um, in fact, it had the history of actually the police being very violent and racist towards the immigrants.
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Um, and there was like the the there was a whole FBI investigation.
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Um and so it, you know, when when Lee Smith was missing and when everything was happening, it was no surprise that folks in East Haven were not talking about it, were acting as if it didn't matter yet in this small little town that I grew up in when I moved to Connecticut, um, I know that if it had been a white woman that had gone missing, a young white mother, 27 years old, Libany Smith, um, I know it would have been a talk of the town.
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And um, it was very hurtful to me, um, you know, as an imminent ranking lifter for someone to feel like so if something happens to us, no one cares, no one asks questions, no one says anything.
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Um and so our work began both in trying to uh raise awareness within the community, but also calling out um the town officials, the mayor, the police department, you know, why aren't they doing more?
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You know, why aren't they doing more?
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Because frankly, from from our end, you know, the family did so much, Yagi did so much, the sister did so much.
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Um, and the justice that we have gotten today for these baiths, everything that we've gotten for these baths has really been because of the family and and their willingness to fight for justice and to not give up and to make sure that you know her story is known and it doesn't just end uh i in this in the violent way that her life was taken, but that there's really more to her story than that.
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Um so I think that you know when you when you walk with families through this journey that that's been more than four years, um, you know, you you learn so much not just about what things could have been done, how we as a community could intervene to stop this.
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Um, but you learn so much too about how these systems are failing uh women, whether they report or not, right?
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It's it's really not about us or this burden that is placed on victims to um to do everything in order to prevent our deaths.
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It's just too much.
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So before we get into Lisbeth's uh story in a little bit more detail, I know in that case you guys jumped right in and you were helping with the investigation and all of that.
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Is there anything else that your organization does besides helping with uh finding information and seeking justice?
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Yeah, so we help families navigate um the legal system, right?
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Um, when it both from, you know, before police make an arrest, pushing police to make an arrest, right, to move on something when an arrest is made, navigate the whole process pre-trial to trial.
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Um, outside of that, too, you know, we do um community organizing, we've done campaigns to specifically raise awareness in cases of feminicide, like in the space case, also in the case of Roya Bohamali, who's an Afghan Muslim woman who was murdered, and her case has, you know, not been properly investigated by police.
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Um, and so we do a lot of um cultural and artistic events in the community, um, vigils and art festivals, all that are really dedicated to not just raising awareness about domestic violence, about femicide, about sexual violence, but also really um trying to make a shift, you know, in our in our culture, in our society, as far as how we understand these issues and how uh we understand what we're able to do about it, right?
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Because many of us, even when we grieve for the loss of a woman, we we still see it as something like, well, I what could I have done, right?
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If she didn't report, if she didn't do this, right?
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And in reality, there's so many things that we as a community can be doing to help make that that shift in society, and so that the burden isn't always on the victims, because a lot of the time victims are already doing a lot to get themselves out of these situations.
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And I just don't think that we're meeting where we need to be.
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And their best, right, proves that.
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And then when we're not taking the time to really stop and process what what led to the victims, right?
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What was what happened to really unpack that, um, then we're losing this opportunity, right?
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That is to learn from that and to really prevent it in a real way.
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Um, because we say that domestic violence is preventable and we know that it is, and yet when it happens, we almost accept that it's it it just it just sort of happens in our communities, right?
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Yeah, definitely.
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Uh and I I so appreciate what your organization is doing because you know, victims, even if they survive, they're still very much victimized, and it's really difficult for them to seek justice on their own.
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And the perpetrators or the abusers are typically very uh removed from any sort of uh empathy or accountability of what they've done.
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So they actually can go in and be calm and collected and look like they're the ones who are not the crazy one.
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The victim a lot of the times looks like they are the crazy individual because they're so emotional from the abuse that they've been experiencing.
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So I really appreciate the work that you guys are doing with the victims and and families and seeking justice.
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Um, I know in this case, you hadn't just started your organization, right?
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Like, so how did you a collective of girls?
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We were just young.
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Um, we were all around Yanni's age, and um we had done you know years of organizing around the immigrant community, and so we had that experience.
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Um and we had just come up like um doing a lot of work to support independently victims of um domestic and sexual violence, we're doing correctness with fundraisers, um, getting emergent to five, getting um you know, working to take the hotel, we're doing that at a small scale.
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Um, but then you know, I'm gonna do it.
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So it was like there's someone working back.
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And I think the fact that it was some point on the door that it's part of this police, I don't know what that was a gap in of like no one's actually responding to gender violence after advocacy groups, not organized groups, right?
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We don't we don't have a place for families to go to when it's happy other than the police.
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But what do you do when the police aren't responding, right?
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What do you do when the police are believing the lives of the perpetrator?
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What do you do when you know they're violent to properly, right?
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And this idea that, oh, women just kick off, women just disappear, women just abandon their families, right?
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What do you do when police are so violent and you know fail to respond with urgency to the depths of black family women so much, right?
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And there's no community group that is that is there to fill that need, right?
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And so we started as a group of young women who just really wanted to be there for young men, um, who also had sisters and could imagine what this would be like if we got you know our sister went listening and you know we would have turned to each other.
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And so that's kind of how we started, and um, frankly, like Yankee's courage and her, you know, that fire of just like that that's inside you that I think that it she really was away for us, you know.
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We were right there behind her, and we had her her side, her back, the front, but it was it was really her um showing us like what do you do when your sister's missing, you know, and she went in and she did a lot of the groundwork before um we got connected with her.
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And I think a lot of our work was sort of helping also navigate with the media because they weren't covering this issue and what does it look like when they do start to cover this issue, but how to do it in a sensitive way, in a way that honors the victim's life, right?
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Not just that moment of death and how she was found, because you know, it it was very violent and very brutal.
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Um, though not just the way in which she was killed, but the aftermath of it too.
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Um, and and and the way that you know he tried to discard her body.
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That was another form of violence, that was another way of killing her again, you know.
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So I think that um it, you know, really we we stand because you know Yami's experience her family taught us that, you know, so many families are left really alone when they're when their loved one who is a woman is killed, who, you know, when police say a woman quote is found dead, there's really a lot more to that.
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And often because of the way the media portrays it, which is similar to the way police portray it, which is just women found dead, we don't ask questions and we think that it's that maybe they die.
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We just like want to assume they die as a non-violent way, but that's usually not the case, you know, when a woman is found dead.
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Um, you know, that doesn't just coincidentally happen.
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You know, we're not just birds dropping from the sky.
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Um, especially when they're found in their homes, you know, like women were killed violently.
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Um, and I think that it's it's very harmful the way that you know the media continues and police um to sort of minimize um this issue of femicide, right?
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Of just like, oh, domestic violence is an isolated issue when it's not, and we see it happening across our communities, um, across race, across um language, across economic status, across everything, you know.
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Yeah, and so I I you and I talked before, and I said I had heard the story on uh another podcast.
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And as I was listening, I was just infuriated with hearing how much of the investigative work was done by the family.
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And I just uh I thought that was not fair, but of course the part that was sticking out to me was domestic violence and the frustration that I had with a lot of domestic violence cases, is where it's it's just easier to believe the perpetrator than to really dig into it.
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Uh for those listeners who are not familiar with the story, do you guys mind sharing a little bit as much as you want in whatever detail as far as what happened?
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My name is Tatan, and I think at the time uh with her boyfriend Jonathan, and he was also the father of her child.
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And you know, what we came to find out, you know, was that Jonathan uh killed these babe um in the early dollars of her birthday.
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Um he buried her body uh behind dumpsters uh in a Brantford restaurant called La Michael's restaurant, uh an Italian restaurant that he used to work at.
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Um he knew that the restaurant would be shut by the holidays, and he used that to his advantage to bury her body there.
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Um Lizbeth was missing uh for days, um, and that's sort of how uh it all started because you know I think as a sister, Yanni knew like there was something wrong, and um her sister who was a dedicated living mother would not just abandon her child under any circumstance, and so um things just weren't adding up.
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Um, but Jonathan had uh a string of lies um and deceptions and uh really tried to manipulate the family into believing um that she she abandoned him and their child and um you know fed the same lies to police um to get police to not look for her, um, even though the family was reporting her missing.
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When he finally went to trial, um I think one of the things that uh stuck out to me was his ultimate sentence and how even that was unfair and it was not really a form of justice because he was able to accept a a plea deal.
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So even as he's being tried for this crime, um he still was able to almost control or navigate what his final outcome was.
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And from what I understand, you guys were frustrated with that as well.
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Yeah, yeah, I think it was very um, I think, disrespectful um overall, not just to his best memory, but I think to the family who's you know carried this pain for years, and even though trial would have been its its own painful process, um, that's a right that they have to choose.
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Um, if if they prefer that and taking those risks to get closer to what feels like justice, you know.
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And I, you know, I think the state spends so much time always telling families that you know there's so much a possibility of losing with jurors, you never know.
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And even sometimes they have evidence and they have video footage, and the juror still ends up bringing down the charges from you know from murder to attempted manslaughter, and so there's always this constant um talk and pressure from the state that like you know it's not worth going to to trial, there's too many um risks, we don't have enough uh in terms of evidence, and it's frustrating to hear that because if they don't have enough evidence, that's that's the police to wake, you know, that's not in the family.
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And um, you know, you would think after everything, and even the fact that FBI comes involved at some point, you would think that um there would be more evidence.
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Um and so to hear that even when you have a family that's doing everything going above and beyond, because right, police uh when police don't react with urgency, right, and they fail to collect evidence in due time, right?
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Whether it's footage or whether it's whatever, um, you know, that has a lasting impact.
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And you know, when police give, when police perform differently in certain cases in certain investigations, right, because of white women or because of an immigrant woman or whatever, that has a lasting impact, right?
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And so the state felt positive, they felt like they didn't have enough um to go to trial.
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And for us, it was just like it it's not, you know, what when you ask a family what is the amount of years that would feel right, there is no number.
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Um, when you ask a family what is it about the charges, it's both a yes and a no.
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Because, you know, for being honest, at the end of the day, all he was charged with was murder, but he didn't just kill her.
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You know, it's the way he disposed of her body.
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There are charges for that when you tamper with elements, when you move a body.
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There's so man, there was um a child who was present um when this happened.
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And whether she saw it or not, she was with in the home.
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You know, there are risks of injury to a minor charges that could have been applied, but that wasn't there.
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So if we're talking about charges, there's yes, there's a list of charges that could have gone on, right?
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Um, strangulation, right?
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She was strangled to death.
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We she could have been charged for that.
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And when there were plea deals that were discussed in the process, right, that was one of it.
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Like they they at one point the state wanted to reduce the murder charge and offer him, if he was willing to do more years, reduce it to manslaughter and with strangulation, and I think with a tampering evidence charge.
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It was like three charge combination that would result in like 20, 50, 35 years, and they would sort of let the judge decide what the what the years would be between that range.
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And you know, that that was a no for a definite no because even though it had the stimulation from the other stuff, it was like he had accidentally murdered her.
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There was this there was nothing accidental about this.
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This was all premeditated.
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And to to let him off the hook in that way is is is very insulting to her memory, and to what actually happened, you know.
00:22:52.619 --> 00:23:01.099
At the end of the day, Lee Smith has a daughter who's gonna grow up to want to know the truth and deserves to know the truth, right?
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And and those journeys is not a reflection of what really happened, you know, and it doesn't honor Beast, it doesn't honor her story, it doesn't honor her loved ones who have fought so hard for truth and justice, right?
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Um, so we pushed back heavily on that, and you know, I think it got to a point where Jonathan started to understand that the family was willing to go to trial, um, if it meant making sure that we we had a murder charge on the table.
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And you know, I think that scared him.
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And I think that's why last minute he sort of um and you said at the end of the day, it was still on his terms.
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He always made things on his terms, and the state was always it felt like giving into his terms and conditions of what he's willing.
00:23:52.380 --> 00:23:54.460
It was always he's not willing to do more than 20.
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That was always clear to us.
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He's not willing to do more than 20.
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I was like, I don't care.
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Did he just did he make that up when he killed her?
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Like, I don't understand, you know, what gives him the right.
00:24:04.380 --> 00:24:19.099
Um, but it was it it was really far right, and you know, I think last night he ends up deciding he would stick with the writer charge, um, but only if he did the minimum amount of years, which was 25.
00:24:19.420 --> 00:24:22.380
He wasn't going to risk doing up to 60.
00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:28.220
And, you know, once the state heard that they were like, great, it's a plea murder, we love it.
00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:29.500
We'll take it.
00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:31.660
And it was enough for them.
00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:43.420
And it's hard to fight the state and to expect them to do well in a trial when they already feel like they have enough um justice, right?
00:24:43.660 --> 00:24:46.380
Even if that's not enough for the family.
00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:50.539
Um, how do you the state isn't advocating for you, right?
00:24:50.619 --> 00:24:57.420
Like victims of femicide and their loved ones don't have an attorney, don't have someone who's representing their interests.
00:24:57.660 --> 00:25:10.700
The state is representing the state's interests, and while, yes, Lisbon is the victim, you know, we don't spend enough talking, enough time talking about, you know, the victims' rights and their loved ones' rights in that way.
00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:21.420
Um, and so it very much feels like these cases sort of revolver with the perpetrator with the killers willing to acknowledge what they're willing to do.
00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:26.859
Um and it's hard because a lot of the time they don't have resources.
00:25:27.259 --> 00:25:32.859
Um, and resources takes less like very many, many forms, has many forms, right?
00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:37.980
It's not just financial resources, it's also the support that you have from family and friends.
00:25:38.059 --> 00:25:45.900
Like that's a huge, huge resource that a lot of the victims don't have, that families in tactic by femicide don't have.
00:25:46.059 --> 00:25:47.099
They're grieving, right?
00:25:47.180 --> 00:25:55.420
They're not here building their network and getting all their alliances, like they're grieving and they're trying to navigate a system while just while grieving.
00:25:55.660 --> 00:26:09.180
And so I think that you know, visas have such a vantage point, and the system is in many ways set up for them to support them, not to support the families or the victims.
00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:21.980
Um, and so you know, the terms were sort of set by him, and the state felt like it was enough, and so families, I feel like, are just kind of shuffled along the process.
00:26:22.220 --> 00:26:24.380
Um and it's very grateful.
00:26:24.460 --> 00:26:33.180
And I think that um, especially when you have families that are just pouring into giving so much to make sure that there is justice.
00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:45.660
Um, I don't I don't think you know the state has the right to give up on bad links or to or to bring less to the table, you know, and and I understand that juries and jurors help how complicated all of that is.
00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:50.940
Um, but that is also why we do that, you know, working in the community, that cultural work.
00:26:51.500 --> 00:26:57.339
Because yeah, we have to get to a point where we're understanding these issues where it's not about the evidence.
00:26:57.500 --> 00:26:58.700
How much evidence do I have?
00:26:58.859 --> 00:27:01.900
Can I see the footage of how he did this and why he did this?
00:27:01.980 --> 00:27:15.819
Like if we're not always gonna have all of that evidence, but we have enough information, data, and research about domestic violence, about partner violence, about all this results in um the deaths of women.
00:27:15.900 --> 00:27:19.420
And so I think we need to stop turning away from it, right?
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:23.819
And when you see the the connections, like the dump, we need to make those connections.
00:27:24.059 --> 00:27:29.819
Like a lot of times we don't identify the women who have been killed as victims of domestic violence.
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:43.900
Or if we do, it's not until much later, you know, and and that's that's harmful for communities because it is not helping us understand like how often it is happening and how real a public issue is within our communities.
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:48.700
You are so right on so many levels of what you just said.
00:27:48.940 --> 00:28:06.779
Um, you know, the statistics are off and the statistics matter because when you have the the appropriate statistics, that's what pushes for change and gets the attention of lawmakers and the legal system as far as okay, these statistics look really bad, we need to do something about it now.
00:28:07.099 --> 00:28:20.299
Um the judicial system a lot of times does look at what their idea of justice is, and they do often forget what justice means to family and to victims.
00:28:20.619 --> 00:28:24.059
And victims often turn into a case.
00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:29.339
And I don't I don't want that to happen with Lise Beth.
00:28:29.420 --> 00:28:30.460
She was a person.
00:28:30.859 --> 00:28:35.099
So I would love for you guys to talk about her.
00:28:36.220 --> 00:28:45.019
Let let us know the kind of person she was, the kind of mom, the kind of sister that she was, and let's just talk about her as a person.
00:28:45.099 --> 00:28:51.420
So we because we all need to remember that victims, it's not just a tragic story, it's a person.
00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:11.259
Um I don't remember um it's probably 15, and it was probably like 12, 13, 12.
00:29:12.380 --> 00:29:18.539
So yeah, like that, like that.
00:29:30.700 --> 00:29:50.779
Um we're gloved and all that, but she did her best.
00:29:50.859 --> 00:29:51.819
I know she did.
00:29:51.980 --> 00:29:53.900
And when she became a mother.
00:29:56.220 --> 00:30:05.019
She surprised me on horn because she became kind of like that mother that she never never had in her life.
00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:09.579
So she was very um very caring.
00:30:10.059 --> 00:30:16.700
As she um she was born premature, she was about six, seven months.
00:30:17.180 --> 00:30:22.380
So um, for her to become a mother as well was very, very difficult.
00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:23.339
Um
00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:35.259
For those of us who never had the opportunity to meet her, is there anything that you would want us to specifically know about her?
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:43.660
I wanted to talk to the time for people that she's lovely.
00:31:49.819 --> 00:31:51.740
And that's all I just want to say.
00:31:52.539 --> 00:31:55.019
She'll have a person that will bother anyone.
00:31:55.900 --> 00:31:57.900
She'll just like go back to work.
00:31:59.819 --> 00:32:01.420
She'll come back to her family.
00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:11.900
Trying to be with the levels as well, which is very funny and very good as well.
00:32:22.779 --> 00:32:24.220
Like I said, you can't bother.
00:32:25.099 --> 00:32:29.900
No at least like, oh, it's gonna use that.
00:32:30.220 --> 00:32:32.059
Just emotional secretity.
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:35.099
Or something too.
00:32:35.660 --> 00:32:36.859
Yeah, for her own.
00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:49.740
But um in my opinion, she just didn't have a lot too too left.
00:32:49.900 --> 00:32:50.460
Yeah.
00:32:51.099 --> 00:32:55.740
I don't I don't think he was the love of her life.
00:32:56.619 --> 00:32:57.740
I think she got that.
00:33:03.579 --> 00:33:06.140
They met when they were very young and they went.
00:33:08.059 --> 00:33:22.460
She met when she was in high school, so and they're more like ten years or so, so the person that was great.
00:33:41.420 --> 00:33:49.259
You know, come into a new country where you're not the language, you're not the people you already know your neighbors.
00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:55.579
Kind of like the couple friends that you have, you just have to stick to.
00:33:57.339 --> 00:34:01.980
It's much easier than home sometimes.
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:08.940
Also for us to like open up about this area.
00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:11.739
It's kinda like a whole lot of it.
00:34:21.579 --> 00:34:24.380
You know, from where we come from.
00:34:24.539 --> 00:34:41.980
You know, we know the neighbors, we know who's around, and it's it's it's just different in culture, it's completely different in here, but it's just so that you have to hide, you know, before you pretend like you're not there.
00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:54.059
Um but yeah, it's it's it's just the fear of putting all those things out there too.
00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:18.780
They were lucky in so many aspects, um It's unfortunately that this happened.
00:35:18.940 --> 00:35:21.340
Um things have happened to a lot of women.
00:35:22.139 --> 00:35:29.739
Um we've seen this a lot as well in Mexico, but I know so because I have to be the none that talks about it.
00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:38.539
Um but it it affects you the most when it's what's happened to someone and you love someone you can.
00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:45.260
So we start seeing a big picture, but it's just not only one little thing.
00:35:45.340 --> 00:35:50.219
It's beyond that.
00:35:50.380 --> 00:35:55.179
It's a lot of things going on.
00:35:58.139 --> 00:36:01.019
It's all starts with what the family hat.
00:36:01.099 --> 00:36:05.179
It all starts with the you know the love you receive.
00:36:05.420 --> 00:36:11.099
Um she sounds like an amazing woman.
00:36:11.739 --> 00:36:14.219
Amazing mom, maybe amazing sister.
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