Oct. 28, 2025
A Father’s Story of Domestic Violence and Hope with Dean Taylor I Ep. 92
In this episode of 1 in 3 Dean shares the true story of helping his daughter escape domestic violence during a winter storm. A father’s gut feeling, a knock that wouldn’t stop, and a rescue that changed two lives. Dean walks us through the night he drove to a remote cabin and helped his daughter leave an abusive relationship—and the lessons every parent, partner, and friend should know about supporting someone in danger safely.
We talk about how early charm becomes control, how gaslighting distorts reality, and why leaving takes multiple attempts. Dean explains what helped most: staying calm, refusing to engage the abuser, and meeting disclosure with compassion instead of blame.
In the aftermath came healing from trauma—therapy, medication, rebuilding trust—and an unexpected new purpose. A nurse turned mentor, Dean now helps men who seem successful on the outside but feel stuck inside. Together we explore men’s mental health, defining values, and building a life of meaning.
If you’re seeking insight into domestic violence recovery, family support, or finding purpose after trauma, this episode offers hope and actionable guidance. Subscribe, share, and leave a review to help more people find stories that save lives.
Dean’s Links:
https://www.1in3podcast.com/guests/dean-taylor/
https://deantaylorofficial.com/
https://www.instagram.com/deantaylorofficial/
1 in 3 is intended for mature audiences. Episodes contain explicit content and may be triggering to some.
If you are in the United States and need help right now, call the national domestic violence hotline at 800-799-7233 or text the word “start” to 88788.
Contact 1 in 3:
- Send your emails to 1in3podcast@gmail.com
- Follow on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @1in3podcast
- Check out the website https://www.1in3podcast.com/
Thank you for listening!
Cover art by Laura Swift Dahlke
Music by Tim Crowe
00:00 - Framing The Conversation
01:46 - Dean’s Background And Family
03:43 - The Jiu-Jitsu Instructor
06:13 - Isolation And Control Escalate
11:13 - The Valentine’s Trip
14:43 - The Midnight Drive And Rescue
18:33 - Disclosure And Aftermath
22:43 - Why Leaving Takes Time
26:43 - Healing, Therapy, And Forgiveness
31:13 - From Crisis To Purpose
34:53 - Midlife Pivots And Fear
38:53 - Vision, Values, And Alignment
42:23 - Learning Through Failure
45:53 - Childhood Grit And Adult Growth
48:33 - Resources, Links, And Closing
WEBVTT
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Hi, Warriors, welcome to One in Three.
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I'm your host, Ingrid.
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Since this is the last episode dropping for Domestic Violence Awareness Month, I wanted to close out by sharing a different perspective we don't often hear.
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What it's like for family members, especially parents, walking alongside a loved one who is being abused.
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The worry, the fear, the hope, and how a family's response can carry so much weight in a victim's journey.
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Today's guest is Dean, who shares his experience standing next to his daughter as she endured abuse at the hands of her partner.
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Our conversation then takes a turn into mental health and what Dean is now doing to help others navigate their lives and find fulfillment.
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Let's get started.
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Hi, Dean.
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Thank you for joining me today and welcome to the podcast.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm excited to be on the show today.
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Thank you.
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Yes, I'm very excited to have you on as well.
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Uh, could you go ahead and give a brief background just so we can get to know you a little bit?
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Yes, thanks.
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Yeah, I am uh my wife and I have been married for gosh now 32 years.
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It's pretty exciting.
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And we have five children and three grandchildren.
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I have worked in uh worked in healthcare for a long time, have a background in nursing.
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I was a nurse in the newborn ICU for about seven years, and then I got into healthcare IT and then did some a little bit of real estate in my background as well, and along that path and journey of some discovery and learning about myself, discovered my passion for uh mentoring and and helping other career fathers like myself who felt a little bit unfulfilled or stuck in life and wondering what am I gonna do?
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And uh so yeah, that's a little bit about me.
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I don't know that we talked about this.
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I'm a nurse practitioner.
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I don't know that we did we I don't think we did.
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I don't think we did.
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No.
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Okay.
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So both nursing backgrounds, it makes sense that you would want to do something to to help others.
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You can't get that one that like it's been great, it is, it really is.
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Okay, so and we're going to get into the mentoring and coaching in a little bit, but you have an interesting take or an interesting perspective, I suppose, on domestic violence, a different view than I've typically been sharing on the podcast.
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Do you want to go ahead and get into that?
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That would be great.
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Absolutely.
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So we have my perspective on it.
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I have a have a daughter.
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Uh we have two daughters, and one of our daughters was uh experienced domestic violence in in her life, and this is about six years ago.
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So she would, and uh she was it's so crazy how some of these things, it seems like it's uh they they start, at least our her experience was uh she'd she was in a had had a previous uh boyfriend and had they broken up, and so she was feeling a little bit of the the sorrow from that, and she had gone to with a with a group of friends, they went to uh I can't remember why they decided to do this, but they went to a jujitsu class.
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And so they they went there and and a couple of one of her friends, they they loved it.
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They thought, oh, this is really cool, and they wanted to go back, and so they started going back to the to the class and made a connection with uh the instructor, uh, who ended up being the person who was uh her became the the abuser of her.
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Uh and it was just kind of crazy how that whole story sort of unraveled a little bit.
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Her and her friend were going, and almost immediately uh he began sort of pitting her against her friend uh in terms of how he would advance her friend and advance her through the the different levels of progression in jujitsu, and kept telling her she wasn't quite doing it well enough, or even though she was our daughter was in whatever exercises or matches they were having, she was usually winning, but he was kept telling her that she wasn't doing it well enough, or there's some more she needed to do, a different technique, or whatever it was.
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And um, but this was after they had this connection, she she felt initially felt this real bond and connection with him.
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He he seemed to know uh how just the right things to say, the things that she needed to hear because he knew she was coming out of this relationship where she felt heartbroken.
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And I think he might now looking back, preyed on it because and when I I when I first met him, he seemed to be like the the perfect solution to all of her problems uh in terms of her heartbreak, and he was so kind and doing these things.
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And then it wasn't too long after that that we began to notice that she started to want to not do as many things with the family.
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It was she was seemed to be being pulled further and further away from us, and we didn't understand it.
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We're like, well, what's what's going on here?
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Why are why are she prioritizing spending time here with him over doing things with us?
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And that was wasn't her nature.
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It was just not she always was so connected with family and wanted to do things with us, and and uh I mean it was a little bit harder because she was she was an adult.
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I mean, she was in her uh she would have been 20 uh at the time, and so I didn't really feel like I, you know, I I kind of understood that having raised teenagers that they in older kids and they do things on their own, but it just seems really out of the ordinary uh the the distance that seemed to be happening with us, and uh and my my wife had all of us on this there's this app called Life 360.
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I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but it's a way to kind of track and keep track of people where I don't know if you keep track of them, but you just kind of know their location.
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And uh there was a a night that uh I or morning I woke up, it was a Sunday morning, and I noticed that her car wasn't out in front of our house.
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It was early morning, and I thought, where is her car?
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And I looked up on live 360 and I could see that she was still over at the gym.
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And I thought, why is she at the gym at this time of day?
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And so I I went over there and I I I knocked on on the gym door and I thought, Where are you at?
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And I and she came out and she says, Oh, well, we were here, we were just kind of talking all through the night, and but that was really odd.
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Like she had never done anything like that.
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So it kind of just made me think uh a little bit about uh you know, I just felt a little nervous about it.
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It just seemed odd to me, the behavior, and so I began to watch Live 360 a little more closely and just think, like, where is she spending her time?
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And then and then I started noticing uh because she had a uh uh room downstairs that our basement door was unlocked.
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I went and I checked our and so she but learned I eventually learned that she had been sneaking out at night or leaving at night.
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I shouldn't say sneaking, she's an adult, but that she was leaving the house and she would be and she didn't want us knowing about it.
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And uh, but I didn't it was just it and this went on for a while, and I didn't really know all the what all that was happening, but I it the thing that was so apparent to me is and besides the distance and the the the less time she spent with family was just how unhappy she seemed to be.
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Like I there was a different change in her countenance.
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I could just see it in her face, and and I would try to talk to her about it, and she would just try to assure me that everything was fine and it was all okay.
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And um, but I just my wife and I became, we just began to be more and more nervous and and and sad a bit about the the time that less time that she was spending uh with home with us at home, which was again out of the ordinary for her.
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And then there was where we kind of began to really piece together more of the what was what was happening, that we she wasn't confiding in us at all, uh what she was experiencing.
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Uh it was on Valentine's Day in it would have been in 20 what I think was, yeah, but it would have been 2020.
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Uh she she was she wanted to borrow our truck and and and go on.
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She said she was gonna go on uh uh a trip with this with this guy.
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And they had a uh uh we live in Utah and they were gonna go up to Bear Lake to this cabin.
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And it just I can't really uh explain it, other than there's just there was a there was a gut feeling in me that just felt like there's something off.
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And I just and so I started to ask her, well, what are they were gonna do and where are they gonna be?
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And I just was inquiring and sometime during that conversation, she just happened to mention to me, uh, well, I I was trying to encourage her not to go.
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I just said, you know, it's it's snowy, it's the middle of February, we live in Utah in the mountains, and it just doesn't seem like a great time.
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It was snowy, and there was snowstorms, and uh I just tried to, and the more I tried to mention to her about, well, maybe could you just go a different day?
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This it was there was some storms, and but she seemed to be really panicked about she's like, I just can't tell him that we're not going.
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I can't tell him that we're not going.
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Like, why can you not tell him?
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Like, why she said, Well, he'll just be upset.
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And I'm like, Well, why I don't this doesn't make sense.
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Like, why I could just see the panic in her face.
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And the more I try to encourage her not to go, the more she just I could just see the fear in her that she and that's when I started thinking, well, what something must be going on here more than I'm than I really know.
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And I said, Well, well, can you just at least let us, you know, let us know that you got there safely.
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Uh and and on, and because it was kind of it was a bit of a trip to get to where they were going.
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And my wife had texted her while they were driving up and said, Noticed again, we were we kind of had watched on the Life 360 app, and they were not exactly where the route should have taken them.
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They were and my wife said, and she was nervous about the whole thing and about how upset he was going to be with her not going.
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My wife said, I don't know why she asked her this, but she said, Hey, would you just send us a picture of where you're at?
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And the picture that we got back we we it it's so crazy.
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It was not even a pic we knew the clothes she left in.
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And the picture that she that they that we received, she wasn't wearing the same clothes as what she had left in.
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And so we said, when was this picture taken?
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And it was a picture that she had taken weeks before in a different so it wasn't even so now we're really nervous.
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We're like, okay, we're we're we where is she at?
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She's doesn't this picture she is it's not we we just it this doesn't make any sense at all.
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So we began to really feel really uh scared about what was where she was at and what might be happening, and um and then it was about midnight, uh a little after midnight, we got a call from her older sister, and she said, uh I got a text from Madeline and she asked me if I could come pick her up.
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Or I thought, she goes, Do you know where she's at?
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And we said, Well, yeah, we we she was told us she was going to the cabin up at uh a cabin up at Bear Lake, but she said, Well, she just asked me if she could come if I could come pick her up, and she said, I I can't leave.
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I don't want to drive in the night in the storm.
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And so I began texting our daughter and asking her, Hey, what's going on?
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Why are you needing me to come pick you, or why are you asking to be come uh someone to come pick you up?
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And and there was no it we didn't get a message back, and and I'm like, I just had this sinking feeling, and it's like this I you want to call it parental instinct, whatever it was, it's like something is not right, and I need to go, I need to go get her.
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And so I I began the the trip up and uh I I'm on I'm driving and as I'm I I got I was probably about I don't know 45 minutes away from from where they were at.
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I got she called me and she said, Hey, uh there's it's you don't need to keep coming.
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There's a we know it's stormy up here.
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I don't want you to keep risking driving up here in the storm.
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We're we're actually we know it's uh pretty snowy, so we're we're packing up when we're going to we're gonna come home.
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And I said, No, I'm I'm I'm close enough.
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I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna keep coming.
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And she's like, no, Dad, really, really you don't need to come.
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We're we're I don't want to miss you, and I don't want you to risk.
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And I said, No, it's okay.
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I'm totally good.
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I'm I'm already into the drive.
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I'm coming.
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I'll come get you.
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Well, I arrived at their cabin and I found out where their leave fortunately I found out where the cabin was because I was I had her address.
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I could see where she was at from the Life 360 app.
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And I saw her truck parked outside the one side of the cabin, and I knocked on the door and there was no answer.
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So I thought, okay, well knock again, and I tried it, and it was a side door, and I knocked because that's where the truck was parked, and so then I went around to the front and I knocked again and waited and knocked again and waited, and then eventually she opened the door.
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And of course I was very relieved to see her.
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Uh, but she was she looked like a complete mess.
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She was in tears.
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She was she just uh it is uh oh this the image of just remembering what she looked like uh and how how terrified she looked.
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And and then he came to the door, uh, this her boyfriend, and uh was just started railing on me about how controlling I was as a father, and how controlling I why would I come get my adult daughter and how much and was trying to convince her to show her, tell her that you see how controlling your dad is, he won't let you go stay any place by yourself, and and he was trying to invite me into the house uh or into the cabin.
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He said, I've been wanting to talk to you for so long.
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And he said, Because I love your daughter, and I can't believe how you you don't love your daughter, and I'm the only one that loves her, and you you and he was just going on, and and the other part of the story that was so interesting to me was I was so panicked, and I just thought, if something's happened to her, there was all these feelings of a father welling up inside of me about if something's happened, how what am I gonna do?
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Uh and I just had this this feeling, this and this clear, distinct impression come into my mind that just said, don't look at him, don't engage him.
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And so I I just didn't pay any attention, I just ignored him, didn't act like he was even talking to me.
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I just kept talking to my daughter.
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I just I kept saying, just grab your stuff, let's go.
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But we had two vehicles there.
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It was our vehicle that she drove up, and and I asked her, I said, Well, can you uh get in the are you able to drive home?
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And and then I quickly realized she was not in any sort of an emotional state to to drive.
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And my my my goal at that point was I thought, I I I want him to find his own way home.
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I don't really care.
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Uh but I eventually she said, Well, just can we just leave the keys here and and let him drive home and return the truck on his own?
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And so she and I got in our car and we began to drive home, and she just broke down in tears crying.
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And began, that's when the story really began to unravel about all the stuff that had been happening to her.
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And I learned that the reason she didn't come to the door right away when I knocked the first time is because he had her in a chokehold on the floor, holding her with his black belt and jiu-jitsu capabilities.
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Uh, and how she got out of it.
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She said, I honestly don't know, Dad, how I got out of the hold he had me in.
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But I knew you were at the door and I wanted to get to you.
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And knowing that you were at the door waiting for me was what I wanted.
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And so sorry, I'm a little emotional.
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Of course you are.
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But but knowing that she was safe um was was all that really mattered to me at that point.
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Um and one of one of her favorite places to eat was uh Chick-fil-A.
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So we went and we went to there to get something to eat, and we just sat in the car and talked.
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And uh the most frightening thing about the whole part of this story was um the reason she had texted our daughter uh that night to come pick her up, and she she she got her phone away from him.
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Um and and he had fallen asleep, and and when he had fallen asleep, she'd crawled underneath the bed and texted her sister to say, Can you come pick me up?
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And she was afraid of being discovered by him uh being on her phone.
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Uh and she said that he had told her his plan for the next morning was to take uh to go on a hike and to take them and into the woods on a hike and to kill her and to kill and kill himself.
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Oh my gosh.
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And that's why she was so panicked and wanting to get out of there, but didn't know how she was gonna get out and s and needed someone to come get her.
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And he had the key.
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She couldn't get the key to the truck.
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She felt she was stuck in his house the whole night.
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And so I'm I'm there's no question in my mind that the the overwhelming feeling I had to leave and to go when I did was because her life was was in danger.
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Oh and you showed up at just the exact right time.
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Yeah.
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My gosh.
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Yeah, and and I guess another thing that part of the story I I forgot was when I was having that conversation with her before she left, uh I can't remember exactly how it came up, but she had mentioned to me that uh her friend Cameron, her boyfriend, would would would read her text messages.
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And I asked her the question, I said, Well, who over who else of your friends ever takes your phones and reads your text messages?
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It never had occurred to her that that was an odd behavior at that point.
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I think she was at that point so emotionally I didn't know anything about narcissism and this abusive behavior.
00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:26.940
It was such a new world for my wife and I that but when she just mentioned that he was reading and monitoring her messages, I just I asked her that question and said, Why why would you allow him to do that?
00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:29.900
She said, Well, he he just takes my phone.
00:21:30.220 --> 00:21:35.420
And I said, Why did that that doesn't seem odd to you?
00:21:35.660 --> 00:21:39.339
Like who and and it hadn't ever occurred to her at that point.
00:21:39.740 --> 00:22:09.180
And so I think she was thinking, she was that was kind of the first now that she's kind of told me this and had was sharing the story, that that stuck in her mind uh about how that, how, how controlling of behavior that was, because he was always feeding her information about me, about how controlling I was as a father, and that's why she couldn't be around me because I was trying to control her life.
00:22:10.059 --> 00:22:12.619
So that's why she was sneaking out and not letting you know.
00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:21.420
And even another really sad part of the story was she has uh soy allergy.
00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:29.259
And one of the things that she had done prior to going up to this cabin was she had made this Valentine's Day dinner.
00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:34.380
She had spent all this time making this thing, was and and preparing for this.
00:22:35.019 --> 00:22:45.420
And then on their way up there, uh on their way to the cabin, he was making fun of her cooking, of the food.
00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:47.500
He didn't want to eat any of this stuff.
00:22:47.660 --> 00:22:53.180
He actually went and ate at a Chinese restaurant because he knew of her allergies.
00:22:53.339 --> 00:23:05.500
He knew that she couldn't eat, and she was so sad because of him not wanting to eat the meal she had prepared, how much fun he was making of what she had cooked.
00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:10.779
Um, and so she left him at the restaurant and went someplace else to get something to eat.
00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:52.859
And when she it was some fast food place that was nearby, and uh she just started crying in in the in this other place, and the people behind the counter felt so sorry for they just gave her food for free because she's telling them this story about how her boyfriend had just totally rejected her meal, and so there's all these things like that that were happening that we we weren't aware of, and um and and when she related to me later the story of her uh when I picked her up and how much peace she felt, she said just being in the car and us driving.
00:23:53.500 --> 00:24:03.019
Uh she said, I one of the things that we love to do as a family in her growing up was we would watch college football on Saturday mornings together.
00:24:03.099 --> 00:24:11.099
And she said, and the she said, I felt back at I I felt like I was back at that same place again when I was a little girl, just being with you.
00:24:11.259 --> 00:24:19.180
And she said, I felt she said, your reaction to me was one of pure love.
00:24:19.420 --> 00:24:24.220
You didn't ever question me, you didn't get upset with me, why was I there?
00:24:24.700 --> 00:24:29.339
You just loved me and comforted me and helped me.
00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:40.460
And she said that was such a contrast to the way I had was being treated and all the lies he'd been telling me that I had been believing all this time.
00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:53.500
She said it was that was the first time that it really was beginning to settle into her mind that this relationship she was in was not healthy, which is so crazy to think about.
00:24:54.059 --> 00:25:10.940
But she said that because of all the things that he had sort of convinced me of about you, and now actually seeing how you were reacting with me was so opposite of what he was telling me how you were and how you would be.
00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:21.180
Uh and anyways, that that that was that was that was the first, that was the beginning of but that I thought, okay, well, now it's all over.
00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:31.339
And we're gonna, she's she's she's now realizing that this is not good, she's not gonna talk to him, but it wasn't.
00:25:31.900 --> 00:26:04.700
She kept going back, and I just it was so hard to finally get her uh to do that, and and and part of part of the way that this we further understood all of what was was happening was um she she had uh gone to our our church bishop and and was was sharing with him what had happened and and actually shared with him uh that she had been raped.
00:26:05.980 --> 00:26:08.220
And he said, Do your parents no?
00:26:09.500 --> 00:26:12.460
And do you know anything about what's happening with you?
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:13.420
And she said they didn't.
00:26:13.500 --> 00:26:18.940
He said, Well, I'll I'll go with you to your house and we can we can talk with your parents together.
00:26:20.140 --> 00:27:12.299
And uh so they did and uh again I just felt complete I wasn't upset with her, and she said, That's another one of the things, Dad, that helped me to break away from him was because when we told you what had happened, you said you just dropped to your knees and hugged me weren't you weren't angry with me, you weren't she said I just never felt so much love in that moment than I felt from you at that time.
00:27:15.819 --> 00:27:24.140
But even at that point, after all of that, it still wasn't she still had other encounters with him.
00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:34.380
Um and eventually the way that we I was so at that point really worried about any any contact with him.
00:27:34.460 --> 00:27:38.299
I kept trying to keep her away from him.
00:27:38.940 --> 00:28:06.539
She had um she was she was learning to play uh the organ uh or the uh the organ at our uh at our church and she'd go over to practice, and one of the there was a lady that was helping her uh learn, and she knew about the situation at that point, and we we shared with her because we were trying to help have other people help us uh protect her.
00:28:07.420 --> 00:28:14.140
And I got a call from her saying that she was over at the church to help, uh, was supposed to meet with her.
00:28:15.500 --> 00:28:33.660
Uh and and and she said she wasn't there, and I said, Oh, well, I I can see on the app that she's there, but what she was doing, she was leaving her phone, and then she would go with him, and I I was so panicked at that moment.
00:28:33.740 --> 00:28:47.900
I thought, oh no, we've got to find her, but I didn't know how to, I couldn't find her, and so we were looking all around, and eventually she came back and uh and I back to the church.
00:28:47.980 --> 00:28:58.539
I was still there, and she said that she had gone with him to tell him that she was ending everything with him, and I'm like, oh my gosh, why would you ever be alone with him again?
00:28:58.779 --> 00:29:02.940
But she I just felt like I had to just share all my feelings and get it all out of me.
00:29:03.019 --> 00:29:16.460
And uh but that was eventually that that was their last encounter that they they and but by I just I was so distraught.
00:29:16.539 --> 00:29:38.059
I just I the the panic and the fear of not being able to just knowing that she had again uh and it really and I felt like it was just why why why would she go back, knowing all that she had been through, why and uh whatever have that even be around him again?
00:29:38.299 --> 00:30:02.779
But I've learned a lot about how these relationships and how hard it is to to f eventually break away from them and the emotional dependence that that she felt on him and she that he had created within her that she only felt like he was the only one that could really support her and and anyway.
00:30:02.859 --> 00:30:05.099
So that that's pretty much the story.
00:30:05.660 --> 00:30:14.059
It's that that dependence is really it's just it's so crazy when you look back on it to to see it.
00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:21.180
But when you're in it, it's they build you up, then they rip the rug out from underneath you, but then they come in and they're your hero.
00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:23.339
And like, oh my gosh, I you're down.
00:30:23.900 --> 00:30:25.980
Here, let me help you, let me comfort you.
00:30:26.140 --> 00:30:29.420
Nobody knows you the way I do, nobody loves you the way I do.
00:30:29.500 --> 00:30:39.819
And it's they just create that that constant back and forth to where there is, it's like a dependence, it's almost like a chemical, like a drug dependence on them.
00:30:40.700 --> 00:30:52.779
She said that what one of the things that was so what she realized afterwards was that because it started out so almost picture perfect.
00:30:52.940 --> 00:31:07.819
It started out so like he was the answer to all her heartbreak, all the things that she was, and she kept thinking through all the times of abuse, she kept thinking, Well, if it was that way at the beginning, we can get back to that place.
00:31:09.259 --> 00:31:10.539
And it never did.
00:31:10.779 --> 00:31:11.339
That's right.
00:31:11.579 --> 00:31:14.380
And it only got worse, and it got worse, and it got worse.
00:31:14.539 --> 00:31:22.299
And but but there were all these moments of discontinual, it was like he would build her up to break her down, build her up to break her down.
00:31:22.380 --> 00:31:34.700
And that just and that cycle continued over and over to where she became so emotionally dependent that he was the only thing that could help her feel any sort of joy or any sort of happiness.
00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:39.259
Yeah, and it gets to the point where they don't even have to knock you down anymore.
00:31:39.579 --> 00:31:46.299
Just uh the fact that they're not knocking you down ends up feeling like a comforting place to be.
00:31:46.700 --> 00:31:47.019
Yeah.
00:31:47.180 --> 00:31:47.420
Yeah.
00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:49.259
That's something something didn't happen today.
00:31:49.339 --> 00:31:51.579
I didn't some yeah, he didn't get upset today.
00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:53.500
So it's that that that's that's a win.
00:31:54.140 --> 00:31:54.619
Exactly.
00:31:54.779 --> 00:31:55.099
Exactly.
00:31:55.180 --> 00:31:59.819
And they're very, very tricky about at first, you know, building you up.
00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:04.539
And then the first knockdown, you think it's your your own fault.
00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:09.180
Like, what did I do to make them change the way they feel about me?
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